Episode 6

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Published on:

29th Apr 2021

Episode 6: Bob McCown on his Rise to Broadcasting and his Beginnings in Podcasting

One of the most notable changes in modern sports broadcasting can be found in the shift from a strict radio based medium to one which can be enjoyed at your leisure in the form of video segments or audio podcasts.

Lucky for us, Bob McCown was around for the early beginnings of both of these mediums. After leaving Sportsnet, Bob managed to climb his way back up the charts with a new undertaking produced by his own company Fadoo Productions.

With The Sign Off being a proud member of his team, we were pleased to have him on to talk us through his experiences and tell us some insider stories.

You won't want to miss him telling us about his time spent with Muhammad Ali before his final match.

Transcript
Sad Styles:

Welcome to Sad Styles productions.

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Let me run you through our daily specials on Tuesday.

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Get over here while Mikey and Andrew celebrate three-year anniversary of The

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Retrograde Podcast with Mortal Kombat.

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On a special day this Thursday losing money with Andrew Bascom

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breaks down all the ways you can lose money on the NFL draft on Thursday,

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the Jackast crew relives the pain and glory of the TV show Jackass

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also on Thursday, Mikey and Brian, let you in on all the secrets of sports marketing

onThe Sign Off:

A Frameworth Podcast.

onThe Sign Off:

Keep your hands inside the car at all times.

onThe Sign Off:

Enjoy the ride.

onThe Sign Off:

Coming up a sad styles, production.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Hello, and welcome.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

My name's Mikey Ehrenworth signing on to sign off once again.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

If you've been listening all along, you'll know that we take

Mikey Ehrenworth:

a lot of pride in exploring the backside of sports, the backside of

Mikey Ehrenworth:

sports, the business end of sports.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That doesn't make it much better.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Regardless.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We spend a lot of time trying to show everyone out there.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Who's a fan of the traditional day-to-day sports.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

What it's like to work behind the scenes.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now in our mind, there's no one better to do that than one of the godfathers

Mikey Ehrenworth:

of the radio broadcasting world, especially in Canada, Bob McCown.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now, Bob McCown has founded Fadoo productions.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And if you've been paying attention to the end of this podcast or the beginning, if

Mikey Ehrenworth:

you're watching on YouTube, the sign off is a proud product of Fadoo productions

Mikey Ehrenworth:

along with sad styles, productions, anyone who's just starting out in

Mikey Ehrenworth:

this business, if on your sixth or so episode, you get the chance to sit down.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

With Bob McCown, you take that every single time you can get it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I was so excited to be able to talk to Bob about his beginnings in this industry.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And even before this industry, he spends a lot of time talking to other

Mikey Ehrenworth:

people and asking the questions.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I loved to be able to take the opportunity and ask him the questions, uh, to put

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the shoe on the other foot, so to speak.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now, obviously we spend a lot of time talking about podcasting in general.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

He's relatively new to this world as are we here at the sign-off.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

But one other thing that we want to focus on is his involvement with sports beyond

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the scope of him being a broadcaster.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

He's done quite a bit.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

He's spoken to many legends, his stories about Muhammad Ali are.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Absolutely not something you'd want to miss as, so I don't want to delay any

Mikey Ehrenworth:

longer, you know, him and you love him.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's Bob McCown.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We will see you guys after the break.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

and welcome back.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And thank you so much for this, a special, special guests that we have.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I know I say that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's just about the beginning of every episode, even if it's

Mikey Ehrenworth:

just you dad, it's you and me and you're, you're special in my mind.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Um, we have with us, the founder of productions, you can find his

Mikey Ehrenworth:

podcast, uh, the Bob McCown POG podcast over wherever you get your podcasts.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We, as the sign-off are also a member of his production company Fadoo

Mikey Ehrenworth:

productions, very proud member of that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And he's here as a, you know, he was originally one of the godfathers of

Mikey Ehrenworth:

a Canadian commentary in sports, and now one of the godfathers of Canadian

Mikey Ehrenworth:

podcasting and sports, Bob McCown.

Bob McCown:

I'm not sure about that.Hello boys, how are you?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Not too bad.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

How are you doing thank you so much for joining us.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, look, it's been a, it's been a fun ride so far.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, we at the sign-off have been, uh, slightly earlier or later than you in

Mikey Ehrenworth:

starting the, the whole podcast train, but you know, you spent a good chunk

Mikey Ehrenworth:

of years going on the radio and, and only recently moved over to podcasting.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, how, how has it been treating you?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I think it was about June or so of last year that you started yours.

Bob McCown:

Yeah, in a different formatic.

Bob McCown:

Uh, we, we started off doing five minute daily podcasts where

Bob McCown:

people could ask me questions.

Bob McCown:

So we invited people to participate through social media and then

Bob McCown:

got, I think in the first day we got six months worth of people.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Oh really?

Bob McCown:

And yeah, it was crazy.

Bob McCown:

And, um, so we started down that road.

Bob McCown:

I don't even remember how many episodes we did.

Bob McCown:

Um, 25 30, 50.

Bob McCown:

I don't remember of the five minute version.

Bob McCown:

And quite frankly, I was uneducated in terms of podcasts.

Bob McCown:

And that's like my dad in terms of mathematics, well, unconvinced

Bob McCown:

of the viability of it longterm.

Bob McCown:

And I just kept getting talked into it over and over and over again.

Bob McCown:

So.

Bob McCown:

I started with this five minute thing and, you know, two things happen.

Bob McCown:

Number one, I, I got tired of doing it, to be honest with you answering questions.

Bob McCown:

When I've spent my whole life asking,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I was going to say, what did you like more

Mikey Ehrenworth:

asking or answering the questions?

Bob McCown:

I'm much more comfortable asking questions than I am answering them.

Bob McCown:

And the second thing was I started doing some serious homework, um, about this

Bob McCown:

and, and contacted a bunch of people that I, I, whose opinion I respected.

Bob McCown:

And, um, so we, we abandoned the five-minute routine, changed the name

Bob McCown:

of it, and essentially relaunched as what was originally planned to be

Bob McCown:

about a 30 minute podcast to date.

Bob McCown:

Now, I know that podcasts, you can do podcasts, uh, for as long as you want.

Bob McCown:

You can do a 24 hour podcast if you wanted to.

Bob McCown:

Right.

Bob McCown:

I just thought the 30 minutes was a, was a solid, a good time.

Bob McCown:

Um, living in Toronto.

Bob McCown:

Uh, I think people get into their cars.

Bob McCown:

They want to listen to something 30 minutes seemed

Bob McCown:

a reasonable amount of time.

Bob McCown:

That may not be your full drive, but it's a good, good hunk of a chunk of it.

Bob McCown:

And so we kind of settled on that.

Bob McCown:

And then I brought John Shannon in because of course, um, I'm obliged to Shannon.

Bob McCown:

Take them under your wing a little bit.

Bob McCown:

Well, as I have for years and years and years.

Bob McCown:

And so, um, it was like the S the, the, the grown son I never had.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Well,ask my dad.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's not a, it's not so pleasurable.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And it, from his perspective,

Bob McCown:

well, No comment.

Bob McCown:

So I, um, uh, Shannon and I started doing it and we started at 30 minutes.

Bob McCown:

And then as often as not, it was 35 and then it got to 40, and we did

Bob McCown:

a couple ones that were an hour.

Bob McCown:

And as a podcast, of course, you're not under the same restrictions

Bob McCown:

as you are in broadcasting, right.

Bob McCown:

So you can do as long as you want or as short as you want.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And that's as that's as the person recording,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

as well as the person listening.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, that's one of the benefits you talk about.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Someone's drive to work now.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

They don't have to schedule their drive around when you're going

Mikey Ehrenworth:

to go live on air instead it's whenever they want to get in the car,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

everyone's hearing the same thing now.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Um, one thing I find very interesting about you, especially later, uh, like,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

like, uh, more currently you talk a lot about the business of sports.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

There was a recent article, uh, about December of last year.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I'm not sure if I'm gonna get the author's name.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Correct.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Simon Houpt.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Is that yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

How, yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, really good article, very in depth, uh, that kind of, uh, I don't want to

Mikey Ehrenworth:

say exposed, but just brought to light a lot of the things that you've been

Mikey Ehrenworth:

going over over the past year or so.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And you had a quote in there that I found particularly applicable to what

Mikey Ehrenworth:

we're going to be talking about today.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, in regards to the business of sports, you said, uh, you know,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

who I talked to in regards to your audience, the 55 year old millionaire

Mikey Ehrenworth:

works on Bay street in my mind.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's my target audience.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

What he's, what's he interested in?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

He's a business guy.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

He's interested in business.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

He's interested in economics.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

He's interested in behind the scenes.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now that's as our mentality here, sort of our mantra is to

Mikey Ehrenworth:

explore the business of sports.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Was that always your intention or was your intention at first to just make

Mikey Ehrenworth:

it so that sports were applicable to everyone and you grew into that role.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, and how much is that focus of, of business now over, just talking about

Mikey Ehrenworth:

what happened last night in a hockey game?

Bob McCown:

Well, I almost never talk about what happened

Bob McCown:

last night and the hockey game.

Bob McCown:

I couldn't care for less than, I don't think the audience can care less.

Bob McCown:

I mean, if they cared, they cared last night, they don't care the next day.

Bob McCown:

Sure.

Bob McCown:

Um, look, I can't tell you that I had this specific concept when I started 40

Bob McCown:

years ago, but I grew into it and you know, you gotta, you gotta kiss a bunch

Bob McCown:

of frogs before you land the princess or the other way around, I guess it

Bob McCown:

is supposedly, uh, And so, yeah, I interviewed a lot of athletes in the

Bob McCown:

early days and they had nothing to say.

Bob McCown:

They all go to media, they all, they all go to media school.

Bob McCown:

They all learn to answer questions without saying anything.

Bob McCown:

They're just exactly the same as politicians.

Bob McCown:

Right?

Bob McCown:

Ask a politician a question.

Bob McCown:

He'll talk for two minutes, but he won't.

Bob McCown:

Well, you'll forget what the question was.

Bob McCown:

Cause he won't even come close to answering it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's fair.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, they already, they, they have that like cliched thing of, of,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

uh, an athlete saying, well, It's gut check time or you got to get

Mikey Ehrenworth:

pucks deep or something like that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Like, it always ends up feeling like the same manner, the same

Mikey Ehrenworth:

crap over and over and over again.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So what I did is I basically told all my producers get rid of those guys.

Bob McCown:

I don't want to talk to those guys anymore.

Bob McCown:

So w you know, what would I also found?

Bob McCown:

And again, over time and not by looking necessarily was that former

Bob McCown:

athletes, as soon as athletes hang up their sweater for the last time, they

Bob McCown:

suddenly become a different right.

Bob McCown:

Suddenly, much more open, at least in terms of it.

Bob McCown:

Uh, generically speaking, I mean, I can't say that for every one of them, some

Bob McCown:

of them will always revert back to the mentality they had when they were playing.

Bob McCown:

But the older a, an athlete is the.

Bob McCown:

The further away from the game.

Bob McCown:

He is the more inclined he is to observe it as an outsider

Bob McCown:

ran rationally reasonably.

Bob McCown:

And so, um, to this day, I will still have former athletes on not anyone because

Bob McCown:

just because they're an athlete, right.

Bob McCown:

And there are a lot of programs that do that.

Bob McCown:

Um, they have to have demonstrated to me in some way, shape or form

Bob McCown:

that they're capable of carrying on.

Bob McCown:

And.

Bob McCown:

A reasonably intelligent conversation, but from that standpoint, yeah, I

Bob McCown:

will talk to former athletes and I'm always happy to talk to people who are

Bob McCown:

involved in the business of sport or it, uh, whether it's owners, general

Bob McCown:

managers, even coaches, um, investors.

Bob McCown:

Um, I mean, we did, uh, we did Greg Cosell this morning.

Bob McCown:

No, you probably don't know who Greg is, but you probably recognize his last name.

Bob McCown:

Co-sale his uncle was Howard Cosell.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

And Greg is, um, I've been involved with NFL films for about 40 years

Bob McCown:

and you know, I never met Greg before, never talked to him before.

Bob McCown:

So I had no real idea where the conversation was going to go.

Bob McCown:

And it turned out to be a fascinating conversation, right.

Bob McCown:

Because what he does.

Bob McCown:

It essentially dissects film, um, in terms of scouting.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Oh, okay.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So not, not films as in ESPN, 30 for 30, this is game footage.

Bob McCown:

They do that too.

Bob McCown:

Cal films.

Bob McCown:

He works for, NFL films, the NFL films, and that's principally what

Bob McCown:

they do is they do documentaries, awesome sports documentaries,

Bob McCown:

almost always NFL documentaries, but this is one of the tasks that

Bob McCown:

they, that they perform as they do.

Bob McCown:

And especially going into.

Bob McCown:

The draft.

Bob McCown:

Now he does this for NFL films.

Bob McCown:

He doesn't do it for outside interests for coaches or general managers in

Bob McCown:

trying to find players in the draft.

Bob McCown:

He does it for NFL films in the kinds of projects they're going to be producing.

Bob McCown:

And I just found that a completely fascinating conversation.

Bob McCown:

Um, the kind of in-depth behind the scenes stuff that I wouldn't even, I

Bob McCown:

wouldn't even have thought to look for.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And that's, that's sort of what we want to bring to the table

Mikey Ehrenworth:

as well with, with our podcasts, you know, everyone has access to.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Like you said that whatever happened the night before, but we're more focused

Mikey Ehrenworth:

on the things that people don't even know that they want to know about

Mikey Ehrenworth:

sports and it's all in the backend.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And that's one thing again, that's fascinated us about, about the way

Mikey Ehrenworth:

you carry on your conversations.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, there's a different demographic than just a sports fan and that's that's,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that's why we figured this partnership with Vudu was, was, was so amicable.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Um, now I want to talk, I know you said, and I'm sorry to do this to you.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That you're more comfortable asking the questions and being asked

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the questions, but I like to take the opportunity to get to know.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

The man behind the glasses, so to speak, uh, as often as we can now you started

Mikey Ehrenworth:

working for C KFH, I think would have been one of your first notable jobs

Mikey Ehrenworth:

in the industry as a sales person.

Bob McCown:

Well, I actually started with, um, CFTR, which

Bob McCown:

was, is now known as 680 news.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

Uh, six CFTR was a top 40 station.

Bob McCown:

Uh, back in those days it was CHUM and 680 that had the two top 40, uh,

Bob McCown:

signals and, uh, then wound up taking a job in Sarnia, Ontario of all places.

Bob McCown:

Um, and I was, I was in broadcast sales.

Bob McCown:

I was a golf pro at the time.

Bob McCown:

Right.

Bob McCown:

And looking for, if you're a golf professional in the wintertime or in the

Bob McCown:

summertime here, you're looking for a winter job and I'd done a bunch of things.

Bob McCown:

And I had a member who sold advertising time.

Bob McCown:

He says, why don't you sell advertising time?

Bob McCown:

And I said, well, sure, I'll try anything for in the winter.

Bob McCown:

And, um, went to 680 news and they basically handed me the yellow

Bob McCown:

pages and said, here you go.

Bob McCown:

And, um, of course I was a complete and utter failure.

Bob McCown:

And, um, and then took it and I was on commission, so I

Bob McCown:

didn't get paid anything right.

Bob McCown:

Sold nothing, just didn't sell a damn thing.

Bob McCown:

And, um, then they said, we've got an opening in our radio station we

Bob McCown:

own in Sarnia and they'll pay you a salary and I'm not ashamed to tell

Bob McCown:

you my salary was $600 a month.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

That was my salary.

Bob McCown:

And I said, giddy up and packed up my, uh, my, uh, A Dodge challenger.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Ooh, that's a good, that's a nice one.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's a throwback.

Bob McCown:

Drove to Sarnia, um, showed up there with a full length, full fur

Bob McCown:

coat, long hair, full beard and white clogs with blue butterflies painted on.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Oh my God.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And did you make a stop at salvation army before going or what happened there?

Bob McCown:

I mean, that was me.

Bob McCown:

That was me back then.

Bob McCown:

And, um, I basically showed up as this guy from Toronto and Hey, I'm here.

Bob McCown:

And, uh, they all thought I was they'd lost their minds.

Bob McCown:

They were seeing things.

Bob McCown:

Was this role, was this an on-air role that you were coming home?

Bob McCown:

I was selling advertising.

Bob McCown:

So at what I had no aspiration to be on air.

Bob McCown:

That was going to be the aspiration to be on air.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That was going to be my next question.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So when you're starting as a, in sales, essentially, you have no concept of what's

Mikey Ehrenworth:

about to come and look for $600 a month.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We see your screen.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And if you're watching on YouTube, you see the screen as well.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's a home office, uh, and you're not ashamed to talk about the selling price of

Mikey Ehrenworth:

your, uh, your current living situation.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Correct.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You want to tell the listener what, uh, what you managed to get?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's a little bit more than $600 a month.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Are we, are we willing to go there?

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

I just sold the house for 10 million.

Bob McCown:

Nothing.

Bob McCown:

Nothing.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So how many months, how many months would you have had to work at

Mikey Ehrenworth:

$600 a month to be able to afford that?

Bob McCown:

Never be able to, you know, the answer to that I'd never ever

Bob McCown:

been able to afford it when again, you know, you got to remember to do that.

Bob McCown:

This was, um, 1970s, right, right.

Bob McCown:

So, you know, I actually lived okay, sure.

Bob McCown:

No.

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

I had a, I had a one bedroom apartment in Sarnia and I fed myself and.

Bob McCown:

Put gas in the car and did what I had to do back then anyway.

Bob McCown:

So I wound up staying a year for reasons that are completely inexplicably.

Bob McCown:

And then they actually, they actually fired me, which was a blessing.

Bob McCown:

Sure.

Bob McCown:

And I came back to Toronto and, um, I got offered a couple of jobs in

Bob McCown:

advertising sales, and one of them was by C KFH, which was foster Hewitt station.

Bob McCown:

And foster was still alive at the time.

Bob McCown:

And I'll tell the story as briefly as I can.

Bob McCown:

And, um, uh, while I was in Sarnia with almost nothing to do in the evening.

Bob McCown:

Sure.

Bob McCown:

Um, I'd go into the radio station.

Bob McCown:

And goof around in the production room.

Bob McCown:

So I'd record myself, you know, play disc jockey and wow.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

And, and, um, because I was in sales, I, I, uh, I had, I actually had clients buy

Bob McCown:

at that point and one of them said to me, will you do our commercials for us?

Bob McCown:

And I thought me, I don't even know.

Bob McCown:

I have no idea how to do that.

Bob McCown:

Wow.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

I said, okay, sure.

Bob McCown:

So I went in one night and I, I scribbled something down and, and the, and the, the,

Bob McCown:

the advertiser was Merle Norman cosmetics.

Bob McCown:

So it wasn't even targeted at guys.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

So I tried to do the, you know, low voice sexy kind of presentation.

Bob McCown:

Sure.

Bob McCown:

Uh, which I had no, no skills at.

Bob McCown:

And, um, One by one, the other client said, Hey, do my

Bob McCown:

commercial, do my commercials.

Bob McCown:

So, but that's, as far as I got, I come to Toronto and of course that's not even

Bob McCown:

in the you don't even talk about that.

Bob McCown:

Right.

Bob McCown:

But I'd had that little taste and I played this jockey, you know, for fun.

Bob McCown:

When I was in Sarnia.

Bob McCown:

So yeah, I, at one point I went to UN sales.

Bob McCown:

I was not the least bit interested in it.

Bob McCown:

I just got, kinda got stuck in it.

Bob McCown:

And I was, I was, I kept saying next year, I'm going to go back to the golf business.

Bob McCown:

Right.

Bob McCown:

And I went to the sales manager who also happened to be the sports director

Bob McCown:

who also happened to do play by play of Toronto maple leaf, Ron Hewitt.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

And I said to him, Well, I don't want to do this anymore.

Bob McCown:

I said, I want to be on air.

Bob McCown:

So I'm going to go to some peanut whistle radio station in a really, or someplace.

Bob McCown:

And I'm going to see if I can be a sportscaster.

Bob McCown:

Cause I like to try that.

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

And he said, well, you can't.

Bob McCown:

And I said, Ron, you don't have this.

Bob McCown:

You don't, you haven't figured this out.

Bob McCown:

I said, I'm quitting.

Bob McCown:

It's not your choice.

Bob McCown:

You, you can't tell me I can't quit.

Bob McCown:

And, and he says, well, no, you can't quit because if you really want to

Bob McCown:

be on air, I'll put you on air here.

Bob McCown:

Wow.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

So the deal he struck with me was that I would do five sports casts a

Bob McCown:

day at seven 30 and eight 30 in the morning, 1230 in the afternoon and

Bob McCown:

four 30 and five 30 in the evening.

Bob McCown:

And in between times I would continue to sell advertising.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now what, what year would this have been?

Bob McCown:

Boy, that's a harder one.

Bob McCown:

I want to say 1973.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So this is before, uh, cause for everything, this is before everything.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, and, and so, but you were, you were put on air at this point.

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

Now.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

He was dumb enough to put me on air with no audition tape, no idea, no nothing.

Bob McCown:

We're doing the same thing.

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

And this was in Toronto.

Bob McCown:

This is the.

Bob McCown:

The largest market in the country and now the fourth

Bob McCown:

largest market in North America.

Bob McCown:

So this is a unique and rare opportunity.

Bob McCown:

And of course I did everything I could to screw it up, terrible

Bob McCown:

on air with the beginning.

Bob McCown:

And I remember calling me one day and he's after I did a sports

Bob McCown:

cast where I just butchered it.

Bob McCown:

I was bumbling and stumbling all over the place and he called me and he said,

Bob McCown:

if you do one more of those, you're gone and fortuitously, I didn't fortuitous.

Bob McCown:

The one that I got.

Bob McCown:

Uh, it might start in broadcasting.

Bob McCown:

And then a few months later I went to him and I said, look at

Bob McCown:

this sales stuff is just awful.

Bob McCown:

I don't want to do this anymore.

Bob McCown:

And I don't remember if it simultaneously or not.

Bob McCown:

I said, why don't we do a sports talk show?

Bob McCown:

Because I had started to listen to a guy by the name of Pete Franklin.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

Who was on three WWII in Cleveland and their signal came into Toronto at night

Bob McCown:

and Franklin did a nightly sports.

Bob McCown:

Talk, shall we talk to fans like sports talk in those days was folded.

Bob McCown:

Right?

Bob McCown:

Right.

Bob McCown:

And for inexplicably, the reasons he had gave me the right to do it.

Bob McCown:

And we started doing it one day a week.

Bob McCown:

We did it on Monday nights and then we did Mondays and Fridays, and

Bob McCown:

then eventually it morphed into seven days or five days a week.

Bob McCown:

And I was doing the sports cast at the same time.

Bob McCown:

And the talk show was on the 10 o'clock at night.

Bob McCown:

So talk about long days.

Bob McCown:

Uh, and then eventually I gave up the sports cast during the

Bob McCown:

day and remember correctly.

Bob McCown:

I hired Mark Hampshire initially to do the sportscast.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

And my first producer on the radio talk show was a 19 year old snot nose punk.

Bob McCown:

Um, who worked in the back shop up at Eaton's who bugged me forever

Bob McCown:

and ever sending me stats about sports that I didn't care about.

Bob McCown:

And I, I wound up hiring him as my producer and his name was Mark Askin and I

Bob McCown:

don't know if you know Mark, but Mark has a long time, long time, senior producer.

Bob McCown:

Of maple leaf hockey and hockey than in Canada and most of the

Bob McCown:

hockey and all kinds of stuff.

Bob McCown:

So he went on to have a pretty good career on his own too,

Bob McCown:

but he was my first producer.

Bob McCown:

Oh wow.

Bob McCown:

And the train of people that have come through my show has been extraordinary.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Who, uh, who's been one of your favorite people

Mikey Ehrenworth:

to work with as a producer.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Sure.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Or, or just someone who've you've consistently had on, on air.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And this is not to disparage any of the people you're not going to mention,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

but someone who you've just thought

Bob McCown:

it would be inevitable, wouldn't it?

Bob McCown:

Because.

Bob McCown:

Like the things that they were the favorites.

Bob McCown:

Of course, of course.

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I've been on your show a couple of times.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Maybe it's me.

Bob McCown:

I'll I'll plead the fifth on that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's fair.

Bob McCown:

You know, I don't think I have a favorite, um, look at you get

Bob McCown:

along with people to varying degrees.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You've had people that weren't your favorites.

Bob McCown:

Oh yeah.

Bob McCown:

And we plead the fifth on that one too.

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

The people that I liked, but.

Bob McCown:

On a daily basis, clashed with all the time and didn't have

Bob McCown:

any relationship with off-air.

Bob McCown:

Well, I will say this Jim hunt was one.

Bob McCown:

Oh, really?

Bob McCown:

I respected shaky.

Bob McCown:

Um, you know, th the audience liked shaky.

Bob McCown:

The show was successful at that time, but did we get along off air?

Bob McCown:

Hell no.

Bob McCown:

Oh, wow.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

I didn't know that.

Bob McCown:

So now we did it.

Bob McCown:

And fight.

Bob McCown:

We just had no relationship off here.

Bob McCown:

Right.

Bob McCown:

Bill waters.

Bob McCown:

And I were extremely friendly, but we rarely socialized off air.

Bob McCown:

And, and, and that wasn't because we didn't like each other.

Bob McCown:

I don't think, I think we just, we were just different guys who had sure different

Bob McCown:

priorities when the mic was turned off.

Bob McCown:

You know, he went his way.

Bob McCown:

I went my way.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

When it boils down to it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's, it's a co-worker right.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, there are plenty of coworkers that I've worked with that I'm not

Mikey Ehrenworth:

going to grab a beer with after not because I disliked them, but just, you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

know, we have different priorities, different, different places in life.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now, uh, one thing that I found fascinating, I want to take us up a

Mikey Ehrenworth:

little bit to 1988, uh, leading up to your premiere of prime time sports in 1989.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now the first episode of primetime sports, tell me if I'm right about this.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Is it true that you recorded it?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Essentially a year before it aired.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, that's not true.

Bob McCown:

Not true.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So, so the episode of 1989, that, uh, that's that aired

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the, I believe would have been the, the airtime of prototype sports.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Correct?

Bob McCown:

Um, I came back in summer of 88, right.

Bob McCown:

And we did my show pre before I left, I moved to Vegas.

Bob McCown:

Well, when the show I D on before that the talk show was called talking of sports.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

And when I came back, bill waters was the cohost of the sh the show that I came back

Bob McCown:

to, which was also called talking sports.

Bob McCown:

And for reasons that I can't explain, and don't remember, um, some somebody

Bob McCown:

decided we should change the name of the show, and I don't know why maybe it was

Bob McCown:

because it was moved to a different time.

Bob McCown:

That's probably was the answer, but, but anyway, it became prime time sports.

Bob McCown:

Right.

Bob McCown:

And then ultimately primetime sports was used as the vehicle to launch the fan.

Bob McCown:

Right.

Bob McCown:

But that didn't happen until 1993.

Bob McCown:

Right.

Bob McCown:

So the first I was the first voice on the fan when we unveiled the first

Bob McCown:

all sports radio station in Canada.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And fairly synonymous, I think, with, with the fan in general, I mean that's

Brian Ehrenworth:

and coincidentally was around the same time

Brian Ehrenworth:

that Frameworth's started up.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

There you go.

Brian Ehrenworth:

That's how we got there.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Well, let's, let's go into that a little bit.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Let's say, cause I do want to pick up later on, uh, post 93.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Once we start to get into the, uh, the Roger's takeover and, and the

Mikey Ehrenworth:

proposal to simulcast primetime sports.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, we'll get into that in a little bit.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I thought you wanted to talk about my fantastic.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, sports memorabilia collection.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Well, this is, so this is what I want to get into here.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So I want to, I

Bob McCown:

want to hurry up.

Bob McCown:

I want to talk about,

Brian Ehrenworth:

wait a second.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You know what Bob, I've known you for many years now, and I've

Brian Ehrenworth:

never heard some of those stories.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I unbeknownst to you, there are people that are interested in how you came about.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I mean, you made it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

No, I think it's a fascinating story and there's a lot more

Brian Ehrenworth:

to be told, but let's move on.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So the, the memorabilia collection, uh, as far as Frameworth is

Mikey Ehrenworth:

involved, begin with the blue Jays winning the world series, I believe was the

Mikey Ehrenworth:

first piece that you dad had mentioned.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Hand delivered to Bob.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh,

Brian Ehrenworth:

I don't remember the circumstances Bob

Brian Ehrenworth:

that I had, um, found your,

Bob McCown:

I might be wrong, but I think it's sitting here somewhere.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Oh really?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I had done a piece.

Bob McCown:

I, I, I It's very weird.

Bob McCown:

I pulled it out of the archives.

Bob McCown:

Um, just the other day.

Bob McCown:

Well, you know what?

Bob McCown:

Sitting on my chair over here,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

$10 million house you got lost in there pretty easily.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I don't, you may never see that thing again.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I don't know,

Brian Ehrenworth:

but you know what?

Brian Ehrenworth:

I remember you had a house down, down, uh, just off young street

Brian Ehrenworth:

in Davisville, in that area.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And for some reason I've lived a few places.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I don't know how I came to first meet you.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I somehow on the phone or

Bob McCown:

You probably called me and bug me.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You may be needed someframing done or something.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Anyways, I dropped,

Bob McCown:

I don't remember either Brian, but I know it's been a long time.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I remember knocking on your door.

Brian Ehrenworth:

There was somebody you were talking to at the time.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And then, uh, I had that piece signed by Dwayne ward or something, and I

Brian Ehrenworth:

wanted to show you, you know, what a good piece of memorabilia looked like.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And, uh, we sat and talked for awhile and, and that was the beginning.

Bob McCown:

It might not have been Dwayne ward.

Bob McCown:

You know who?

Bob McCown:

It might've been.

Bob McCown:

It might've been Wendel Clark.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Ah, well, no, this is a blue Jay.

Bob McCown:

You had a piece that you gave me.

Bob McCown:

That was, um, uh, it wasn't a photograph, actually.

Bob McCown:

It was a, a print of a painting, I believe.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

I don't know if you remember it, all the stuff that you've gone

Bob McCown:

through, but, but, uh, Wendell Clark and I still have it actually.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Oh, that's awesome.

Bob McCown:

So, um, well I have basically everything that I.

Bob McCown:

Gotten from you through you, whatever so quickly, because

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I want to talk about a project as well.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That Frameworth did work on you, uh, uh, with, uh, with regards to Muhammad Ali.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And I want to get into that in a little bit, but before we do that, you, as a fan

Mikey Ehrenworth:

of sports, I'm assuming you got into this industry because, you know, First and

Mikey Ehrenworth:

foremost, you are a fan or just someone who liked to play disc jockey when no

Mikey Ehrenworth:

one else was around, but you clearly have a very, a large affinity towards sports

Mikey Ehrenworth:

was memorabilia big to you at that time.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Was that, was that something that was, Oh, it wasn't now

Mikey Ehrenworth:

have you, since grown into that,

Bob McCown:

I was being facetious.

Bob McCown:

I really don't have a big collection of anything.

Bob McCown:

Right.

Bob McCown:

For whatever reason.

Bob McCown:

I've never asked for a single autograph.

Bob McCown:

I don't think in my life I've never really collected things.

Bob McCown:

I've accumulated things fare well, and those are two entirely different things.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yes.

Brian Ehrenworth:

To this point, we're at Bob's place the other day.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And we went into the office that I think he's sitting in now.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And back when I first, when Sidney Crosby got his gold medal goal in

Brian Ehrenworth:

2010, you know, I designed this, uh, A commemorative Jersey and a

Brian Ehrenworth:

beautiful box, et cetera, et cetera.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I, I said, Bob, you got to have one of these.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I, I saw it sitting on the counter there.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Oh, okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It doesn't have a lot of it as you saw it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

There isn't a lot of memorabilia around, but I said, geez, Bob, Bob.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I gave that to you when it was worth about $600.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He said, yeah, she's, what's it worth today?

Brian Ehrenworth:

So it's about $2,500 change, and now they're almost sold out.

Brian Ehrenworth:

There's like 10 left.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So he didn't even realize what he was sitting on.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I said, you know, you could sell it if you want to know, I'll keep it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That feels, uh, one of the stories as someone who accumulates instead

Mikey Ehrenworth:

of collects, um, are you, uh, are you now getting into that at all?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Or is that something that's kind of off the table for you?

Bob McCown:

It's just not in my nature.

Bob McCown:

Um, I always felt uncomfortable in interviewing these people and

Bob McCown:

then asking for an autograph.

Bob McCown:

Sure.

Bob McCown:

Take a photo.

Bob McCown:

I mean, I don't have, I can't tell you how many shows I've done.

Bob McCown:

I can't tell you how many athletes I've I've interviewed.

Bob McCown:

It is well into the thousands.

Bob McCown:

Um, More than 10,000 shows.

Bob McCown:

And you could argue, you know, I have five or six guests when

Bob McCown:

I used to do the radio show.

Bob McCown:

I had five or six guests on a show on the show.

Bob McCown:

So you could be talking 50,000 guests.

Bob McCown:

Wow.

Bob McCown:

Obviously these repeats, but, um, never asked, never, never asked for a

Bob McCown:

photograph, never asked for an autograph.

Bob McCown:

Now, do you think Jean being of the profile that I had, uh, things came along.

Bob McCown:

You know, it was not uncommon for me to go into the radio station and there'd

Bob McCown:

be a couple of things sitting there.

Bob McCown:

You know, whether it's a hock, uh, hockey, Canada, Jersey from, um, uh, from the

Bob McCown:

hockey, Canada people, or whether it's something from your dad, for Brian,

Bob McCown:

whether it was, it could be from anybody.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Do you, in, in spite of the fact that you were accumulating rather

Mikey Ehrenworth:

than collecting, do you have something that stands out as your favorite?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Um, or the most valuable one, one, one or the other?

Bob McCown:

Well, I don't value.

Bob McCown:

I don't, I don't know what, I don't know, value on anything.

Bob McCown:

I've never bought.

Bob McCown:

I've never bought anything.

Bob McCown:

I've never sold anything.

Bob McCown:

Um, although now with this move coming and trying to downside,

Bob McCown:

there may be some selling going on.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

There you go.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I'll take the barbecue.

Bob McCown:

I mean, and, and your dad will tell you the same thing.

Bob McCown:

Cause he's been in my house many times.

Bob McCown:

I know you've been here, but I have.

Bob McCown:

Really one place where I put up things that pertain to me or things

Bob McCown:

that are important to me from my career and that that's in my office.

Bob McCown:

Right.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Which we're seeing there right now.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

There are a couple of other pictures that are downstairs by the

Bob McCown:

pool table that we wanted to talk about.

Bob McCown:

And that's the two Muhammad Ali pictures, right.

Bob McCown:

I'd love to sat around for 20 years.

Bob McCown:

Um, and we did nothing with, until you're I showed them to your dad and I

Bob McCown:

don't even remember the circumstances.

Bob McCown:

Brian was just kind of a casual, I got these that I took and he went, Oh

Bob McCown:

my God, those are, those are great.

Bob McCown:

You know, where's the negatives.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well, before you even did that, Bob, I saw them.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I saw the images and it was, uh, two of the greatest shots I

Brian Ehrenworth:

had ever seen of Muhammad Ali.

Brian Ehrenworth:

There's been a lot of sports broadcast, uh, photographs that have been

Brian Ehrenworth:

done, but these are really classic.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Up-close very candid from a great angle.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I didn't know, Bob had taken them.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I said, wow, these are exceptional.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I said, where did you buy these?

Brian Ehrenworth:

You said I didn't go ahead.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Bob tell him the story.

Bob McCown:

Well, I, Ali and I had become friends as a dating back to 73 and Ali

Bob McCown:

used to call me on my re he would call me Muhammad Ali called into my show

Bob McCown:

whenever he wanted, he had my, he had a private line that we'd given him.

Bob McCown:

And, um, he lived in Chicago at the time.

Bob McCown:

And, uh, Every couple of weeks and Mark asking was producing back then.

Bob McCown:

And I, you know, I'd be sitting there and, you know, lines would be lighting

Bob McCown:

up and all of a sudden he'd come on and he'd say, Ali on line four.

Bob McCown:

Oh wow.

Bob McCown:

And I go, hi champ, how are ya?

Bob McCown:

And you know, he'd, he'd go into one of his, I love you to show him my

Bob McCown:

ideal style, but the pay was so cheap.

Bob McCown:

I won't be back for a while.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

He seems like Eddie shack a little bit like, like

Mikey Ehrenworth:

he would get along with Eddie shack.

Bob McCown:

Those too well.

Bob McCown:

I mean, that's the kind of relationship we had.

Bob McCown:

So then an in 83 Ali, I think it was 83.

Bob McCown:

Might've been 84.

Bob McCown:

Ali was getting ready for what would be his last fight and ironic plea.

Bob McCown:

It was with Trevor Berbick, who was the Canadian heavyweight champion at the time.

Bob McCown:

And the fight was at The Bahamas.

Bob McCown:

And I went down to The Bahamas and talked to Ali and his people

Bob McCown:

and, um, Bundini Brown, et cetera.

Bob McCown:

And arrange to get some time with the champ and who wasn't the champion

Bob McCown:

at that point, by the way, he'd already lost to, uh, Larry Holmes.

Bob McCown:

Yep.

Bob McCown:

And, um, so we went down, I was a global TV at the time, took a camera crew down

Bob McCown:

and there were four of us, me a sound guy, a camera man, and a PR producer.

Bob McCown:

And we were an affiliate of ABC.

Bob McCown:

In terms of newsfeeds and ABC found out that we were going to interview Ali.

Bob McCown:

They tried to go and interview him as well, and Ali turned them down.

Bob McCown:

Oh wow.

Bob McCown:

So, uh, they then called us and said will called me and said, all

Bob McCown:

right, we have the idea to shoot a piece of you following alley.

Bob McCown:

And I said, well, do whatever you want.

Bob McCown:

I mean, fill your hat as long as it's okay with the champ, I play with it.

Bob McCown:

So they sent a crew down that when we set up our cameras, wherever we set up

Bob McCown:

our cameras with our alley, whether it was the sit-down interview, whether it

Bob McCown:

was Ali training, whether it was, um, Ali exercising, I went for a run with Ali.

Bob McCown:

Well, it was more like a jog.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I was going to say, how did that go?

Bob McCown:

Well, Ali didn't run exactly like a sprinter.

Bob McCown:

Did he, did he run backwards though?

Bob McCown:

Like, like Apollo, creed and Rocky out of that, this was all, this was all,

Bob McCown:

it was four o'clock in the morning.

Bob McCown:

Oh, wow.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

So, um, and, and Ali said you want to come jog with me?

Bob McCown:

And I said, yeah, sure.

Bob McCown:

And I found out later, nobody had ever been allowed to Oh, wow.

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

So I was the first guy to ever do it.

Bob McCown:

And.

Bob McCown:

The chug lasted about five, eight minutes.

Bob McCown:

So essentially we had a car and, um, our camera man rolled down the window and had

Bob McCown:

the camera outside the car and was driving along beside now, mind you, they could

Bob McCown:

have walked as fast as we were running.

Bob McCown:

So our cameraman followed, um, Ali and I, and I tried talking to him, but he

Bob McCown:

didn't want to talk while we were running.

Bob McCown:

The one time on the side of our car was a series of stretch.

Bob McCown:

White limousines with ABC had multiple cameras rows with multiple producers.

Bob McCown:

They had like 20 people there.

Bob McCown:

We had four and they shot.

Bob McCown:

Us shooting Ali so this went on for the two days that we did this.

Bob McCown:

I did my interview and my camera was here and ABC's camera was behind my camera.

Bob McCown:

Anyway, this all winds up on Nightline.

Bob McCown:

Wow.

Bob McCown:

And back in the day, when Nightline was the show, Ted Koppel was the host.

Bob McCown:

Well, the irony is, um, Nightline aired at 11:30 PM.

Bob McCown:

SportsLine on global my show aired at 11:30 PM.

Bob McCown:

And I had no idea when they were going to run theirs and

Bob McCown:

I kind of forgotten about it.

Bob McCown:

Sure.

Bob McCown:

Turns out that they aired the show this one night and I didn't

Bob McCown:

even have anybody record it.

Bob McCown:

So, um, and I always felt home Noni about asking ABC for a copy

Bob McCown:

of the tape I was going to ask.

Bob McCown:

I never did to this day, I still have the alley interview piece that we did.

Bob McCown:

Right.

Bob McCown:

But not theirs.

Bob McCown:

I never saw what ABC did.

Bob McCown:

Oh, that's kind of tragic in a way.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean that, I mean, it speaks to the heart of what collecting

Mikey Ehrenworth:

is and memorabilia is, you know, you mentioned that you're not much of a

Mikey Ehrenworth:

collector that you accumulate and I, I.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You know, not to speak for you, but I do feel that one of the reasons people want

Mikey Ehrenworth:

to get involved in collecting is so that they can be a part of the industry that

Mikey Ehrenworth:

they love or the sport that they love.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You are already so much entrenched in it that maybe that's just not necessary.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, your memorabilia close to it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Your memorabilia just,

Bob McCown:

I'm not comfortable in asking.

Bob McCown:

And I know many people are, but I it's.

Bob McCown:

I think it's a personal thing.

Bob McCown:

It really doesn't have that much to do with the fact that.

Bob McCown:

I know these people and I, I interview them.

Bob McCown:

It just, it feels presumptuous to me.

Bob McCown:

Sure.

Bob McCown:

You know what, Bob though, that the thing is with, with people in your

Bob McCown:

profession, there are people that do that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I think that the athletes, knowing the app from

Brian Ehrenworth:

the athletes point of view, they think that's, that is unprofessional.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I think your tack there, because there's guys that just.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Announcers in that, that I know of.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It just hound the guys like, Hey, can you sign this?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Can you sign that?

Brian Ehrenworth:

And it, and the guys just shake their head, go what, you know,

Brian Ehrenworth:

it's just so unprofessional.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You know, you're here to do your job.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Don't, don't try and get autographs on the side.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And that's not to say they won't do it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

If, if it's, you know, if it's for your kid or something like that or whatever.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Special occasion, but not every time you imagined the collection that you

Brian Ehrenworth:

would have, you know, what a Mohammad Ali autograph is worth right now?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Thousands of dollars.

Bob McCown:

I have, you know what?

Bob McCown:

I have of Ali, right?

Bob McCown:

The pictures I took, I just got my first 35 millimeter camera before.

Bob McCown:

Uh, I went down to The Bahamas with Ali.

Bob McCown:

So I decided to take it.

Bob McCown:

I'd never taken picture a picture before.

Bob McCown:

Like maybe with a Kodak Instamatic, you know, back in the day, we're big

Bob McCown:

on that selfies back then or what?

Bob McCown:

I had no idea how to use this camera and I was just goofing around.

Bob McCown:

And so there I was, and I took a bunch of shots.

Bob McCown:

I am at the alley training camp.

Bob McCown:

Um, there was a guy there by the name of Tommy Hearns.

Bob McCown:

Oh yeah.

Bob McCown:

I love fighting on the undercard who nobody had ever heard of at that point.

Bob McCown:

No one had her.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Bob McCown:

Oh, wow.

Bob McCown:

Nobody had ever heard of him.

Bob McCown:

This was before Duran and Leonard and.

Bob McCown:

Um, and, uh, Hagler, I guess, and there was this tall skinny kid, and

Bob McCown:

I just saw him in the ring and he was unique because he was tall and gangly.

Bob McCown:

So I took a picture of him.

Bob McCown:

And I remember that was one of the other pictures that I, that I saw.

Bob McCown:

And I took a couple of pictures of Ali.

Bob McCown:

Well, I brought them home, got the film developed and I did have eight by tens

Bob McCown:

made of a couple of those pictures.

Bob McCown:

And they immediately went into a drawer.

Bob McCown:

And stayed there for, I don't know how long, not quite 20 years.

Bob McCown:

Wow.

Bob McCown:

Do you remember Brian, when we did those Ali

Mikey Ehrenworth:

it must have been eight years ago.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

10 years ago.

Bob McCown:

After more than that?

Bob McCown:

Yeah, the, the, it might've been 20 years, so it could have been like 2003.

Bob McCown:

Right.

Bob McCown:

When we did those and Brian had come over to the house for some reason.

Bob McCown:

Probably the, a beer.

Bob McCown:

I was going to say, not knocking on your door yet again.

Bob McCown:

Yeah, yeah, no, Brian.

Bob McCown:

So, and I don't remember the circumstances, but I showed him these

Bob McCown:

two pictures and his eyes got big as saucers and said, do you know,

Bob McCown:

we could do some stuff with Bubba.

Bob McCown:

He says, where are the negatives?

Bob McCown:

And I said, Brian, I've got no idea.

Bob McCown:

I didn't even know I had the photographs and I looked all over the place.

Bob McCown:

Couldn't find the negatives.

Bob McCown:

So Brian took the two eight by tens and I don't know what, what you

Bob McCown:

did with them and create negatives or did you just blow them up?

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

Do you remember?

Brian Ehrenworth:

We scanned them, uh, you know, he can do that and then, and then

Brian Ehrenworth:

you can digitally, we increased the size.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It would have been as easy as it is today.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I was going to say, now that's something you could do at home, but back then

Mikey Ehrenworth:

it was, it was finding a specific source that was able to, uh, to

Brian Ehrenworth:

the key is to get them blown up so that they don't.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Pixelate.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yes, exactly.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Nice and clear.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Anyway.

Bob McCown:

Um, so your dad did that and then, uh, he decided, or we decided

Bob McCown:

to do 250 copies of each one and.

Bob McCown:

The hassle with getting Ali by that point, Ali was, you couldn't really talk to him.

Bob McCown:

He couldn't, he couldn't talk anymore.

Bob McCown:

And I've lost communication with them in touch with them.

Bob McCown:

So your dad convinced me to sign them.

Bob McCown:

So I signed them as the photographer, right.

Bob McCown:

And hand numbered them.

Bob McCown:

And they sold out in.

Bob McCown:

No time.

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

Like a couple of weeks.

Bob McCown:

I think Brian.

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

Well the last one.

Bob McCown:

So can we kind of slow, played it a little bit, but a couple months?

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

And you know what, Bob, here's the thing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Cause it was interesting.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, one of the first shows that we did, we talked about with Darryl

Brian Ehrenworth:

Sittler on the first show about how the memorabilia business evolved, where it

Brian Ehrenworth:

used to be the artist rights that did the painting and they would sign it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And then Darryl came along and did a painting where, or, sorry, an artist did

Brian Ehrenworth:

a painting and we had Darryl sign it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So that was one of the first pieces of art that the athletes

Brian Ehrenworth:

signed and that took off.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And it was one of the four runners to the memorabilia business.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Then years later we did an about face.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We didn't get the athlete to sign it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We got the artist and that was you.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And that was good enough along with the piece to create.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I mean, otherwise it's just a.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Not just a photograph, it's a good photograph, but everybody

Brian Ehrenworth:

wanted your signature.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And if you remember, we made a limited edition out of it and we know I'm

Brian Ehrenworth:

going to try and dig the one up because I've got one tucked away somewhere.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I tried to find it before the show.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We'll try to throw a photo of that piece in, uh,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

in the video, if you're watching this on, uh, on YouTube, right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

What Bob's not saying is how good the photo was for an amateur.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He was below for an amateur.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You want that qualified?

Bob McCown:

He just, he just wants to know the secret.

Bob McCown:

Go ahead.

Bob McCown:

You look carefully at that photograph and, and I, I, on a shamingly point

Bob McCown:

this out to everybody, um, I act my, my out of focus, thumb is.

Bob McCown:

In the bottom left corner.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Is that where you signed to, just to make sure they know it's

Bob McCown:

no, I mean, I, but I I'm telling you, I w I knew nothing

Bob McCown:

about taking a picture, right.

Bob McCown:

I was as amateur as you could possibly be.

Bob McCown:

I had no idea how to work this camera, and somehow I got my

Bob McCown:

thumb in front of the lens and.

Bob McCown:

When I took the picture, I didn't even notice it, except that there

Bob McCown:

was in the bottom left corner.

Bob McCown:

There was this blur.

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

I remember that.

Bob McCown:

It just looks like somebody walked by or whatever.

Bob McCown:

You really can't.

Bob McCown:

You can't tell it's a thumb, but that's what it is.

Bob McCown:

It's my thumb.

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

But it legitimizes the amateurism that was used to take the photographs.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But he caught, he caught Muhammad Ali with a look on his face.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It was obvious that he knew you, it, the look when he would

Brian Ehrenworth:

looking down, cause you were.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, he was up in the ring, I believe, right?

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

He was in the ring.

Bob McCown:

I was down below and I was looking up at him and he was in, he was actually in

Bob McCown:

his corner between rounds of sparring.

Bob McCown:

Right.

Bob McCown:

So I'm going to try and dig that up so we can show the fans.

Bob McCown:

It's a very challenge.

Bob McCown:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

A little bit.

Brian Ehrenworth:

How much time we got, uh, we, we got,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

we can give it another five minutes or so.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I did want to get into our, our Gardoonies episode a little bit.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Cause that was fun.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Guard.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So Gardoonies for the listener who doesn't know is a

Mikey Ehrenworth:

restaurant that was opened up by, uh, my dad, Brian, uh, his brother Allen and,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

uh, Doug Gilmour was a partner as well.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It was open just across the street from maple leaf gardens.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Here's here's how that evolved, because I

Brian Ehrenworth:

remember, and we talked about this.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I would pull up to maple leaf gardens, which is one of my accounts, right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Leave the car right outside.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Because no policemen would give you a ticket because Harold Ballard

Brian Ehrenworth:

didn't want any policemen to screw up his ticket sales because the

Brian Ehrenworth:

box office was just in the door.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So none of the cops would ever give you a ticket, but nobody knew

Brian Ehrenworth:

this, but a few people, I would leave the car there for hours.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But anyways, I pull up in front and I look across the street and I see a

Brian Ehrenworth:

restaurant that's gone bankrupt there.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I'm thinking this would be a great spot.

Brian Ehrenworth:

How can you not go do something right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

With a restaurant right across from me, of course.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But to make it work, what if we had a couple of guys to promote it?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Cause I, you know, I opened a restaurant before, but having some

Brian Ehrenworth:

people on board that would guarantee the success besides just the Wednesday

Brian Ehrenworth:

nights and the Saturday night.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And the first call I made was to Bob.

Brian Ehrenworth:

There you go.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Said, you're interested in getting into the restaurant business.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He said, what are you talking?

Brian Ehrenworth:

So no, to let any idea until you heard it outside,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

there's another knock at the door.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Middle of the night.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Dad shows up.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I just said, he says, he says, in fairness eight, he didn't say no.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He said what he got in mind.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Sure.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I said, you know what, Bob, I'm thinking this restaurant's

Brian Ehrenworth:

gotta be successful right across from maple leaf gardens.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I kind of know Doug Gilmour because we've started to do some business with them.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I'm thinking just on the podcast in a couple of weeks, by the way.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And we, I said, I'm thinking that the three of us is a core element, could

Brian Ehrenworth:

attract a lot of attention to this bar.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I'm a promoter.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I can build it, but Bob's got the radio show with.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Hundreds of thousands of listeners and Doug, Gilmour's the hottest

Brian Ehrenworth:

thing since sliced bread and Toronto, three of us own that bar.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And we actually put it together.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Hey Bob.

Bob McCown:

Yeah, we did.

Bob McCown:

And, um, it had, it had a fair life.

Bob McCown:

It made believe gardens hadn't shut down would probably be still there today.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Huh?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, that was the plan.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We said it was, this was 93, I believe.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And it said.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And we said, well, what are you going to do if they sell the gardens?

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I said, by that time, we'll have made our money.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And, uh, you know, it was in an area that was a predominantly

Brian Ehrenworth:

gay area, uh, around the guards.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I said, well, we can turn it into a gay bar because that's where the money is too.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I mean, there's very successful, uh, gay bars in the

Brian Ehrenworth:

neighborhood, or we just sell it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And so we ended up selling it 99.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, because, you know, obviously the weekly business, uh wasn't uh,

Brian Ehrenworth:

wasn't there every Wednesday and Saturday, it was filled season long.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And then with Bob's help.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Bob McCown:

And if you remember, Brian, we had actually had to have

Bob McCown:

two seatings for dinner, right.

Bob McCown:

We had a five 30 seating and a six 30 seating.

Bob McCown:

If you came to the five 30 seating, we kick your ass out

Bob McCown:

by six 30, the next group in and after the game, it was packed.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Probably one of the best openings.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Cause we Wayne Gretzky just shut his restaurant and that happened.

Bob McCown:

Remember who played at the opening.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Oh yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Like I was there as well.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We had some of the greatest names in sport

Brian Ehrenworth:

and entertainment at the time.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Who do we have Bob?

Bob McCown:

Well, you tell me, you tell me, I want to see if you remember.

Bob McCown:

I know.

Bob McCown:

Okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We had the Barenaked ladies.

Brian Ehrenworth:

That's what it was.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So who were hot as a pistol at the time?

Brian Ehrenworth:

And they got up on stage and Doug Gilmour got up.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I mean, there was a few pops, but

Bob McCown:

I think great didn't grapes get up there too.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Grapes was there..

Brian Ehrenworth:

You did

Brian Ehrenworth:

your show from there that night with Jim hunt.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, and then it cause in that private back room that we had for celebrities,

Brian Ehrenworth:

and then we had a stage set up the meteors, which was a local band

Brian Ehrenworth:

played throughout the evening, but.

Brian Ehrenworth:

The way I did this too, was you, you called a few friends which are

Brian Ehrenworth:

slam dunk, but I remember trying to get as many big name people

Brian Ehrenworth:

for that open winning as I could.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And what I did was I'd fallen.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I'd phone up, uh, management for the Barenaked ladies in a park,

Brian Ehrenworth:

and I'd never get a call back.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And then it, then it hit me.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I said, this is what I got to do.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I I'd phone somebody and say, uh, can I speak to so-and-so?

Brian Ehrenworth:

And they said, Oh, he's not here right now.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Who's speaking.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I said, Oh, it's Doug Gilmour.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I'm opening a restaurant.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I'd like to know if, uh, if you, if you, your, uh, your client

Brian Ehrenworth:

would like to show up for the opening, we'll send an invitation.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You change your voice when you did this, or

Brian Ehrenworth:

they don't know.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I'd say here's my number.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Call me back.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And, and sure enough, 20 minutes later, you know, that guy would cause

Brian Ehrenworth:

Doug was so hot that guy, the manager would call the band and the band would

Brian Ehrenworth:

say, yeah, I'm going, I'd get the call back from the manager 20 minutes

Brian Ehrenworth:

later and say, is Doug Gilmour there?

Brian Ehrenworth:

I said, Oh no, this is the restaurant Doug just left.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, but if you're interested, I can pass on the message.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And that's how we got the Barenaked ladies there.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And a ton of other celebrities, but Bob was instrumental in

Brian Ehrenworth:

getting some of the bigger names.

Brian Ehrenworth:

There.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Here's a question not to, not to put you on the spot, but

Mikey Ehrenworth:

uh, why Doug Gilmour and not Bob McCown

Mikey Ehrenworth:

you could have used his name.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Bob was doing his own.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Let's bring it in.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He was, he brought in most of his work.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

There was a couple of key people that I wanted there for entertainment purposes.

Brian Ehrenworth:

There's a picture.

Bob McCown:

I do have a picture of opening aided Gardoonies on my wall here.

Bob McCown:

Well, um, uh, and, and of course you stuck your face in there.

Bob McCown:

Why don't you and I, and grapes in the, uh, in the picture

Brian Ehrenworth:

grapes, did your show that night?

Brian Ehrenworth:

I cannot.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Th there were some other key things that happened in that restaurant.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I remember they had the WW

Mikey Ehrenworth:

WWF, at the time came in and did, uh, before one of

Mikey Ehrenworth:

their events that they had at maple leaf garden had a lot of the athletes

Mikey Ehrenworth:

show up and do performances or perform wrestle performances, the wrestlers

Mikey Ehrenworth:

themselves before heading over and doing the show with the gardens.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Remember the undertaker walked in,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

dad, come on wrestling.

Bob McCown:

How about meatloaf?

Bob McCown:

Do you remember meatloaf?

Bob McCown:

Yes.

Bob McCown:

A hundred percent meatloaf.

Bob McCown:

Meatloaf was those big and, and Douggie.

Bob McCown:

And I went over and we got seats and we, uh, watched the concert.

Bob McCown:

And then the record company, I believe Brian booked our

Bob McCown:

restaurant, uh, for the post show.

Bob McCown:

Uh, party and meet did come over for, I, I want to say about 10 or 15

Bob McCown:

minutes, is that your recollection?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I still got an album signed by him.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

He, I was big.

Bob McCown:

Well, I'll see that's you.

Bob McCown:

You got albums signed know,

Brian Ehrenworth:

but you won't ask.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I will.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

No shame.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I'm not a broadcaster.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Um, we're so we're, we're kind of winding down here, uh, as always

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Bob, we appreciate you coming on and, and hopefully down the

Mikey Ehrenworth:

line, we'll get you on again.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Um, any, anything you want to plug before we get going here?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Because you know, our show has a ton of reach.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You might be able to reach a new audience through us.

Bob McCown:

Well, just our own podcast.

Bob McCown:

Uh, the Bob McCown pod cast is available wherever you buy your podcasts or

Bob McCown:

get them for free more accurately, and you can watch it on YouTube.

Bob McCown:

And we have a new facility, uh, where people can watch it now.

Bob McCown:

And, and, you know, with these things on, on the internet and

Bob McCown:

watch them on your big, big ass TV.

Bob McCown:

Now, if you want.

Bob McCown:

Absolutely.

Bob McCown:

And, um, um, in addition to your podcast, um, Life love and lipstick is, um,

Bob McCown:

uh, a really interesting podcast with two ladies who are both, um, divorced

Bob McCown:

with kids and what's life like in the single world for, um, mature woman.

Bob McCown:

And, um, they talk about it every day and, um, I can't think of

Bob McCown:

anything else that I need to promote.

Bob McCown:

Oh, I do own this winery, Stony Ridge.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I'll tell you what.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I had a great afternoon there with you.

Brian Ehrenworth:

When one day we drove down, uh, my wife, Lori, and, uh, and I, and

Brian Ehrenworth:

you hosted us down there and we.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And then we went over to the casino afterwards and stayed the night,

Brian Ehrenworth:

so we didn't have to drive home.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So it's great.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Good time.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Beautiful, beautiful winery.

Brian Ehrenworth:

If you're ever down in the Niagara region, you've got to check it out.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Thank you.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So keep an eye out.

Bob McCown:

Obviously have the hip, the wines for the tragically

Bob McCown:

hip and for, and for a glass tiger and, uh, uh, more of those to come

. Brian Ehrenworth:

If you can get your hands on that because

. Brian Ehrenworth:

they're sold out right away.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Oh, is that true?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah, right.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Well, yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Keep an eye out Fadoo productions obviously has a great roster

Mikey Ehrenworth:

of podcasts to go check out.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, there's going to be a new launch of the website where you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

can find lists of all of those, including life love and lipstick.

Bob McCown:

Yeah, that's coming.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Coming soon.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So once again, uh, for the sign off for, for frame with Bob,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

thank you so much for joining us, Brian Ehrenworth the president of

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Frameworth and myself, Mike Ehrenworth.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

This is us signing off.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Well, ladies and gentlemen, and we made it to the end of yet another episode.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Thanks again so much for joining us.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You can find videos of all of our episodes on YouTube by

Mikey Ehrenworth:

searching the sign-off podcast.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You can also follow us on Twitter @FrameworthSport score

Mikey Ehrenworth:

or Instagram @FrameworthSports.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Hey, if you're not sick of me yet, you can find me on Twitter over

Mikey Ehrenworth:

at, @RetrogradeMikey, or you can always find me embarrassing myself

Mikey Ehrenworth:

over on Instagram @Ehrenworth

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the sign-off is a proud product of Fadoo productions and sad styles,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

productions, executive producers, Mikey Ehrenworth, , and Andrew Bascom.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Until next week, this is Mikey Ehrenworthsigning off

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About the Podcast

The Sign Off: A Frameworth Podcast
A behind the scenes look at Sports Marketing from those who helped invent it
Welcome to The Sign Off: A Frameworth Podcast.

This is a forum for all the stories you didn't know you WISHED you knew about the inner workings of the world of Sports Marketing.

Away from the arenas, there's a lot more that goes on behind the scenes, and it's often precisely where some of the most amazing stories take root.

Join us as we explore how every day people come together with a passion and fandom towards sports to form the web of industry which serves as an integral element of the games we all know and love.

About your host

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Mikey Ehrenworth