Episode 5

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Published on:

22nd Apr 2021

Episode 5: From Signature Chaser to Industry Changer

The sports world has come a long way since the days where the only way to get your hands on your favourite player's autograph was to wait outside of an arena and hope they had time to stop by after practice.

You may not realize it, but before companies like Frameworth, Upper Deck, Fanatics, and A.J.'s solidified themselves as go-to sources of trusted signed memorabilia, fans and resellers alike had to do a lot of work to determine the proper avenues through which they could source legitimate items.

Early on in Frameworth's existence, Brian Ehrenworth set out to change this, and through a combination of fortune and strategy, he was able to help set a new standard for creating trustworthy avenues of sale and resale.

This week he sits down with us to explain how things have changed since those early days, and the troubles he experienced along the way.

Transcript
Sad Styles:

Coming up a sad styles, production.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Hello, and welcome.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Once again, my name is Mikey Ehrenworth signing on to the sign-off.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's the podcast where we tell you everything you didn't know, you wished you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

knew about the world of sports marketing.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And the more I say that, the more I'm wondering is that too much of a mouthful.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Time will be the judge, but until then we have a very special episode coming

Mikey Ehrenworth:

up for you next but not special in the way that you might think we don't have

Mikey Ehrenworth:

a fantastic third guest on, but what we do have is the focus on our second,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

most popular host of this podcast.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It is my dad, Brian Ehrenworth the president of Frameworth.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

He's going to sit down with us once again.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And our major focus of this episode is actually going to be on autographs.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And how autographs kind of started off as the wild West of the industry.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

No one really knew where to go to get an authentic autograph.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And if you want it to be in this game, you really had to learn who you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

could trust or go and do it yourself.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And that's the story that my dad is going to be taking us through.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, listen, I'll take any chance.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I can get to sit down with my dad and have him tell me some of

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the stories of the earlier days.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Of this industry.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

He doesn't give me a lot of time to sit down and talk with him.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

He's a busy man instead live vicariously through me for the next 45 minutes or so.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I promise you, you're not going to want to miss some of these stories.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I learned actually quite a bit, even though I was working for

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the company at the time, there was way more going on behind the

Mikey Ehrenworth:

scenes than I was even aware of.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And he's here to share that all with you.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So without further ado, I'm going to let us go into the next

Mikey Ehrenworth:

portion of the episode and we will see you guys on the other side.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

welcome back to the sign off.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You'll notice by our beautiful faces.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

If you're watching on YouTube, that it's the two of us, the two founders

Mikey Ehrenworth:

of the sign-off podcast here.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Once again, the last time we had a chance to sit down with just the two

Mikey Ehrenworth:

of us as a will Smith once famously stole, uh, it was on episode two.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And now we're here.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Episode five feels like it's only been five weeks, doesn't it, Dad?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Feels a lot longer with sitting across from you.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's fair.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's fair.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You know what?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We're developing our personalities and this is okay.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Obviously we've had some fantastic guests on the show.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Darryl Sittler to start us off Ken Reid last week.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Once again, for those of you who were listening, we apologize for

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the audio issues we had there.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, we've done a lot more double checks and triple checks

Mikey Ehrenworth:

in three years of recording.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I've never had that happen, but Hey, look, we live in, we learn, uh, and I'm here

Mikey Ehrenworth:

to live and learn with you dad today, as you can walk us through the ins and outs

Mikey Ehrenworth:

of how you got started specifically with signatures is what we want to focus on.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

The name of the episode today is from signature chaser to industry changer.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And I know you're going to love that because you would be the titular, uh,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

industry changer in this, uh, in this.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

But before we get into that, I do just want to kind of ask you, you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

know, it's been, it's been five weeks along, five weeks, as you say.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, what, what are your thoughts, uh, lately?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

How things

Brian Ehrenworth:

actually, this has been a lot of fun for me.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I, uh,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

it's been miserable for me, so it's good to hear.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well, I've actually heard from a lot of people, um, that have.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Really?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I actually turned in a tuned in, so that's great.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We've got our friends really neat story.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Cause I, a long time ago I got a call about three or four years ago

Brian Ehrenworth:

from a good friend of mine, John McDermott, uh, and you'd know him

Brian Ehrenworth:

from, uh, from his great albums

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And used to be the, uh, Anthem singer for

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the Toronto Maple Leafs as well.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yes.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And so I got to know John, just because he had phoned me about, um, Putting

Brian Ehrenworth:

them in touch with Sidney Crosby, for something that he was doing for a charity.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And then, uh, we got to be friends.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So at one point, John asked me if he could bring, um, some

Brian Ehrenworth:

friends from, uh, Technische, PEI

Mikey Ehrenworth:

PEI for the American listeners who may not know

Brian Ehrenworth:

Prince Edward Island.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

There you go.

Brian Ehrenworth:

One of the prettiest places in the world and seen I've

Brian Ehrenworth:

been around the world, looking at the mirror, and this is exactly.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So, um, so we met in the, uh, go figure they're East coasters.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We met down in the platinum lounge at the air Canada center and started

Brian Ehrenworth:

with a few pops and ended up as a.

Brian Ehrenworth:

As the evening went on.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Of course we were all kind of, uh, taken cabs home.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So we're okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We hit it off.

Brian Ehrenworth:

These guys.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I could tell you, East coasters are the salt of the earth.

Brian Ehrenworth:

These are the best people around.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Anyways, we, we had a, a great evening.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They came up to visit our showroom here and we had photos

Brian Ehrenworth:

and they w it was like they were visiting the hockey hall of fame.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I was, I was so thrilled that they enjoyed themselves so much.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We ended up in, I'd never been to PEI.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So we ended up going out there, uh, your mother and I, Lori,

Brian Ehrenworth:

and we visited these people.

Brian Ehrenworth:

What grade hosts picked us up in their car, drove us around

Brian Ehrenworth:

and showed us everything.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And they're their lobster fishermen.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So that's another good contact.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And this is before not to cut you off, but this is sort

Mikey Ehrenworth:

of a Testament to the types of people that you meet in this industry.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, sports just serves as this kind of melting pot for

Mikey Ehrenworth:

people from all over the place.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And this is someone that you met on a whim and you've kept in touch

Mikey Ehrenworth:

with ever since this entire group.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Right?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So

Brian Ehrenworth:

very good friends.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well, I got, because of this podcast, I got another note from him on

Brian Ehrenworth:

Facebook saying we really enjoyed the podcast and, uh, we listen every week.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I just want to give them a shout out because, uh, they're such

Brian Ehrenworth:

huge, uh, Toronto maple leaf fans.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And of course on the East coast, they love their Boston as well, but Toronto

Brian Ehrenworth:

fans and they come down once a year, they're missing their trip this year.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We miss them.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We're going to get out to see them.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They're going to come here.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And it just shows how widespread this fandom is.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You know, whether it's, you know, these people out in Prince Edward

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Island who you'd think maybe you have nothing in common with being, you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

know, a city slicker from Toronto.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And now all of a sudden you get to talk in and you guys collect all the

Mikey Ehrenworth:

same things and you have that sort of love language of sports to go.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I actually, I don't know if you saw this, but, uh, uh, we were reached out

Mikey Ehrenworth:

to, by another listener to the podcast.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And, uh, we told a story recently.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I believe it was when we were with rocket, the security agents, uh, or

Mikey Ehrenworth:

head of security, uh, who was telling, you know, stories about, about keeping

Mikey Ehrenworth:

his, his player safe and moving your lines and things like that and what to

Mikey Ehrenworth:

do when there's there's fans around.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And we told a story, you told a story that I wasn't sure.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Too excited about telling, but you and I, to summarize, if you haven't heard episode

Mikey Ehrenworth:

three with rocket, uh, go back and listen.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You and I were at, in Nashville at the all-star game and

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I was younger at the time.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And you know, I'm, I'm six foot two, you know, I think you're young.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I was thinking maybe, maybe it would be cool if someone mistook

Mikey Ehrenworth:

me for an athlete, because that's where I get my, my, uh, my, my.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Fun from is maybe I could pretend to be someone else.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And you kind of laughed at that, whatever, and we're walking into the arena and

Mikey Ehrenworth:

immediately we just say, Hey, Hey, we hear these, these two fans screaming.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And I'm like, Fucking here it is.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You got it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We got it guys.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I got, I got recognized and you just kind of chuckled and as we're

Mikey Ehrenworth:

walking by, they say, aren't you Brian Ehrenworth the Frameworth.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So the, so we got someone reaching out to us who actually told us that

Mikey Ehrenworth:

they were those people who pointed you out and that's Patrick McManus,

Brian Ehrenworth:

Patrick.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And you know what, it's funny because Patrick's a great customer Frameworth.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I had no idea.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I don't even know that I would recognize him in the street.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, but because of this podcast, And he goes to all the all-star

Brian Ehrenworth:

games and I think him and his wife or girlfriend, I can't remember.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, which one, but he's well, no, there's only one.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Sorry.

Brian Ehrenworth:

There's only one, but I can't remember if Mary, I think it's his wife.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They've been to, I think all of the arenas to see the

Brian Ehrenworth:

penguins play big Penguins fans.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Awesome.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But anyways, he said, uh, uh, we decided that the next all-star

Brian Ehrenworth:

game that is happening, that we can go to.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You and I, and Patrick and amaze, and his wife are going to get together for a

Brian Ehrenworth:

drink or two and, um, and have some fun.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That is the fun of this podcast.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And, and you know, it, it may feel a little bit on the nose that we start off

Mikey Ehrenworth:

this podcast talking about this podcast, but the reason why we want to kind of take

Mikey Ehrenworth:

a break and summarize this is just to say, you know, Frameworth as a company for so

Mikey Ehrenworth:

long, we're focused more on the corporate sales, the corporate end of things.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You know, we'd make deals with Labatt's and the teams and the.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Players, but especially in the last year, you know of COVID has done one thing.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's really helped us out.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's it's brought us into contact with the, the, the individual collectors

Mikey Ehrenworth:

on much more of a one-to-one basis.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And this podcast is now another opportunity for us to reach out and

Mikey Ehrenworth:

get to know our supporters a lot

Mikey Ehrenworth:

more intimately, which is one of the things I really love.

Brian Ehrenworth:

If there's something positive came out of,

Brian Ehrenworth:

of this COVID for our company.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Anyway.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Is the fact that, uh, we used to deal through, as you mentioned, corporations,

Brian Ehrenworth:

et cetera, et cetera, never really getting to know individual collectors.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well, now it's done a 180 swing and virtually all the business we're doing

Brian Ehrenworth:

right now is with collectors and it's fun to talk to them, to meet them, to see

Brian Ehrenworth:

what they like and what they don't like.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And we talk about, uh, I've been in touch with all the Facebook people.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, or a lot of Facebook groups and another great group, uh, that is,

Brian Ehrenworth:

um, obviously very near and dear to Frameworth is, um, Matt Ellenberger

Brian Ehrenworth:

his group, the, uh, Sidney Crosby memorabilia, collectors, uh, group.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And they specialize virtually and they're real serious collectors.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So if you want to know something about Sidney Crosby and his memorabilia,

Brian Ehrenworth:

uh, check out that Facebook page.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Cause Matt's got, I don't know.

Brian Ehrenworth:

There's.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Or 500 members there, but, uh, they know everything.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You want to know what something's worth.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You want to know where it came from.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And so we ran a little contest with them and, um, their, their

Brian Ehrenworth:

whole group is listening to the.

Brian Ehrenworth:

To the podcast as well.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, again, we'd love to serve as sort of that node that connects interested

Mikey Ehrenworth:

people to, to, you know, ways in which they can interact with the community.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And part of that is on Facebook and those groups.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So, so can show it to them.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now you mentioned this group and they're heavily focused on

Mikey Ehrenworth:

autographs and signatures in particular for Sidney Crosby.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now, Sidney Crosby.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Has become in a way, especially in the worlds of sports, Mark,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

uh, sports memorabilia, synonymous with Frameworth and vice versa

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Frameworth with Sidney Crosby.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We've been working with him from the very beginning, from day one,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

since he stays in . And I mentioned at the top of the show that the name

Mikey Ehrenworth:

of this episode is going to be from signature chaser to industry changer.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And the reason why.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's the name of the show is because Frameworths started out in

Mikey Ehrenworth:

this world of sports marketing as a company that would source autographs

Mikey Ehrenworth:

through people who already got them.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You know, there was a.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Place or person or people to whom you would go in order to find these

Mikey Ehrenworth:

autographs, then we would resell them based on what we got to the end user

Mikey Ehrenworth:

after we, you know, put them in a frame or did something along those lines.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And it wasn't until relatively recently in the, in the brand that the broad

Mikey Ehrenworth:

scope of Frameworth that we decided to.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Work with the athletes directly, the athletes, the agents, and the teams.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And I kind of want to bring us through that process because I

Mikey Ehrenworth:

was involved in a lot of it, but I actually don't know the full story.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Um, and I, the, the one thing that I do know is that a lot of what happened

Mikey Ehrenworth:

was very word of the day or two.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It because we made some decisions.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And when, uh, when it came down to it, we really lucked out.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We bought Google at 15 cents, essentially.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And, and things happen in a way that allowed us to kind of

Mikey Ehrenworth:

expand and take some more risks.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And at a certain point it bit us and we had to recover from it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So that entire arc.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Is what I want to take the listener on this journey.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So why don't you start us off?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Why don't you tell us about the early days Frameworth is just getting into the

Mikey Ehrenworth:

world of sports, marketing and sports memorabilia and you need to, and you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

you've recognized similar to when we had that, uh, the piece with the blue

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Jays that was signed, that there is absolutely a market for signed items,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

and now you take it upon yourself to figure out how to improve upon that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well, and also before I just get into that, the one thing I would say when

Brian Ehrenworth:

I talk about fortuitous, um, things happen for a reason and you know, my

Brian Ehrenworth:

philosophy in life put yourself in the right place and good things will happen.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And that's basically what's happened.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's a funny way of you saying, uh, when you're talking

Mikey Ehrenworth:

to famous people on the phone, say their names out loud very, very often

Mikey Ehrenworth:

and hope that the people around you hear, but he's going to hear you.

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

Someone's going to hear it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

In the early stages when we realized that autograph cell picture framing, which

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

is what we were doing at the time, um, we didn't have any contacts to speak of.

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

Uh, we, you know, we knew of some players and we've, we did some picture framing

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

for some players, but very few, um, in those days you, there were guys that did.

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

Kind of hounds that brokered these things.

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

It, wasn't a really organized a community where it is similar to what it is today.

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

It was very different.

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

It was guys that would, uh, no, the odd player ask him for

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

autographs, Pam, a little money on the side or whatever it would be,

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

and then go around and sell them.

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

There were card shows and things like that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

And, and they try and move those autographs.

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

When we realized that they autographs help sell frames, we would.

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

Search those people down, or they would come to us and say, Hey, you know,

Brian Ehrenworth:

:

do you want to buy some Doug Gilmour, autographs or some, any of the Leafs?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

How much, how much at this point in time?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Because you know, it sounds like what you're describing is kind of

Mikey Ehrenworth:

like the wild West there, there are people popping up anywhere.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

How did you know who to trust at these times?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You don't have to name names.

Brian Ehrenworth:

No.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, to be honest with you, that's the big dilemma, right?

Brian Ehrenworth:

And that's why we started making a move in, in a different direction.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You wanted to help fix that

Brian Ehrenworth:

right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

As well.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Exactly.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I mean, how do, unless we're at the autograph signing, right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And we have to trust the fact that they were and building a business

Brian Ehrenworth:

well, we're in our infancy, so it wasn't as big a deal.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, You want to make sure that what you're selling is authentic.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And since we didn't appear there, we have to trust the

Brian Ehrenworth:

people, which is very unnerving.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, we did kind of check out their backgrounds and know that this guy

Brian Ehrenworth:

was a friend of Doug Gilmour's or that guy was a stick boy at the,

Brian Ehrenworth:

you know, or equipment manager.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And he would help

Mikey Ehrenworth:

No I think they prefer stick boy thesedays.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I think that's the correct term so

Brian Ehrenworth:

we could trust some of them, but who knows?

Brian Ehrenworth:

So, yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It wasn't long before we realized that our reputation would be on the line.

Brian Ehrenworth:

If we were buying autographs, weren't authentic.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Did you ever find yourself in a situation

Mikey Ehrenworth:

where you found out that you had purchased improper autographs or no?

Brian Ehrenworth:

I'm trying to think.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I don't think so.

Brian Ehrenworth:

If we felt that there was any reason that they might not be

Brian Ehrenworth:

authentic, then we wouldn't sell

Mikey Ehrenworth:

fair, fair.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So we've, we've run into things.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I would never buy from a card show from a vendor, sitting at a.

Brian Ehrenworth:

At a booth in a fact, even today, um, you know, there's a lot, a lot of trust

Brian Ehrenworth:

that goes into these companies and we can get into that in another show, like PSA

Brian Ehrenworth:

and JSA and all that, but I'm not sure.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I mean, it's great that there's some source Sarah, but I'm not sure what their

Brian Ehrenworth:

real qualifications are for gauging.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I have a hard time believing that even with a PSA or JSA autograph

Brian Ehrenworth:

on or a certificate on it that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

That I would trust it a hundred percent.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I mean, it's only an opinion.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, and of course that's the same with Frameworth.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You got to hope that we are not doing anything or, or fanatics or

Brian Ehrenworth:

upper deck is not doing anything untowards and we're moving in that

Brian Ehrenworth:

direction to try and fix that and find better ways to make sure that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You can trust the authentication.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And we got into NF-uhh,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

NFTs

Brian Ehrenworth:

and we'll get a go.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, to be fair to PSA JSA, I mean, those are companies

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that are trusted throughout the industry and they're doing what they can with

Mikey Ehrenworth:

what you know us in the industry.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We call hotel autographs.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's very hard to determine with 100% certainty what isn't is not.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

An autograph when, what we wanted to bring to the table, or you wanted to

Mikey Ehrenworth:

bring to the table when you decided to get, uh, and we'll get into this.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Some exclusive arrangements with some of the, the athletes

Mikey Ehrenworth:

was a consistent autograph.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That was always recognizable regardless of what it was on the

Mikey Ehrenworth:

problem with the hotel autograph, uh, to, to kind of expand upon that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's, if you are waiting outside a hotel or an arena, just something

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that's signed on the street.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Is that it does have a little bit of inconsistency.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So to your point, it's very hard for someone to look at it and say this thing

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that was, you know, maybe just scribbled on a little bit is, or is not from a

Mikey Ehrenworth:

certain player, but you know, with us not being on the ground there, it, it's

Mikey Ehrenworth:

hard to say whether they're guessing.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I don't think they are.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I think they have legitimate experts there, and this is

Mikey Ehrenworth:

not a shot at them whatsoever.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I think it's, it's always just.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Wise to keep in mind that the best option you have is to

Mikey Ehrenworth:

go to a first party company.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Like, you know, even like upper deck fanatics, there, there are a lot of

Mikey Ehrenworth:

these companies that will do their own signings and ensure that they're there.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And then they give the authentic authentication as opposed to

Mikey Ehrenworth:

finding something that exists.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And then after the fact saying yes is, or isn't real,

Brian Ehrenworth:

there's no question that there are more, uh,

Brian Ehrenworth:

reputable companies than others.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So, um, You know, if the best way to do it is to see it being done.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, but the second best way to do it is to make sure that you know, that

Brian Ehrenworth:

the source is, is a legitimate source.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So upper deck represents Wayne Gretzky and Michael Jordan tiger woods.

Brian Ehrenworth:

LeBron, a lot of the big, big name guys.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, and then there's fanatics who have a number of players as well.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I think they have Matthews and a couple of other guys.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Couple of other guys and then Frameworths who have as, you know, uh, Sidney,

Brian Ehrenworth:

Crosby and Carrie price, whatever.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So if you've got those certificates related to the players and the,

Brian Ehrenworth:

and the source, you're pretty comfortable that it's authentic,

Brian Ehrenworth:

you should be comfortable with it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now, that's, that's sort of an over, like an

Mikey Ehrenworth:

understanding of the industry, right?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Do I want to walk through the actual process that got us here?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Right?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Because we started at the wild West and now we're talking about legitimate places.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You can go like a bank, you know, walk in and know that what you're

Mikey Ehrenworth:

getting is real money right now.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Your first step, you know, you've been dealing with these companies or, or

Mikey Ehrenworth:

individuals even who have popped up on the recommendation of players or as

Mikey Ehrenworth:

you so famously called them stick boys.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Um, and to see whether or not you can get some autographs, what steps

Mikey Ehrenworth:

did you take and what was your initiative to try to fix that?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well, the first thing was I was uncomfortable as,

Brian Ehrenworth:

as the business grew buying that many autographs and our company

Brian Ehrenworth:

was growing and getting a better reputation and I didn't want to risk.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, our reputation by, by taking a chance and buying something.

Brian Ehrenworth:

This was always a fear at the time.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Oh, from day one.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You know, so the next step would be to say, well, look, I realized at one point

Brian Ehrenworth:

that we were buying 80% of the autographs from the guy that was sourcing them roar.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I'm thinking, well, let's try and make some contacts.

Brian Ehrenworth:

With some players directly.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, Doug give em, Doug Gilmour was one of the first ones that

Brian Ehrenworth:

we approached and I met him.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, Oh, I'm trying to think.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I guess we met him through a fellow named Steve Davies.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And it was thrilled because Doug was like so hot in the industry.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He was, he was.

Brian Ehrenworth:

The savior for the Leafs.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And Steve was a guy that just came to me to do some framing, and then

Brian Ehrenworth:

he was best friends with Douggie.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So at one point he said, I want to Doug, he was with Hespeler hockey sticks,

Brian Ehrenworth:

or he owned Hespeler hockey sticks.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And he said, what if we got these?

Brian Ehrenworth:

And Steve did, Steve did.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And Steve said, well, can you market these for me?

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I said, yeah, that's great.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He introduced me to Doug.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Which was a thrill.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

When you say these, as in like hockey like signed hockey

Brian Ehrenworth:

signed Hespeler Hockey Sticks.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Amazing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I met Doug.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I remember bringing about 30 or 40 sticks to the, um, to the pub, uh,

Brian Ehrenworth:

behind you university of Toronto there.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, what's the name of the street?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Anyway, I can't think of the name off the top of my head, but we sat in that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Pub and drank beer all afternoon and signed hockey sticks.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But that's the first time I, so now we have the contact with

Brian Ehrenworth:

Doug, which led to other contacts.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And the more we did that, the more we didn't need these other guys.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And one thing led to another and people just started to realize that

Brian Ehrenworth:

they should come to us if they wanted to sell their autographs correctly.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And then from there, I mean, so this is kind of

Mikey Ehrenworth:

just case by case basis, right?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You're you meet someone in Steven who has a contact with Doug and you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

say, let's, let's do it, Steven and Doug, by the way, if you don't have

Mikey Ehrenworth:

their last names, those just sounded like very off the street names.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It turns out they're very high profile people.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, from there though, you start to expand, I believe, right?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, what, what brings you from.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Sourcing out, not, not agents, just people on the street who

Mikey Ehrenworth:

have contacts with the players.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

How do you then expand?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

How do you then increase your roster size of people you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

can go to, to get autographs.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well word gets out that you're buying a lot of autographs and

Brian Ehrenworth:

that you, and by this time we're starting to get associations with the NHL and the

Brian Ehrenworth:

players association and getting licenses.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So would you have had licenses at the time where

Mikey Ehrenworth:

you were buying the autographs?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Not right at the beginning.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So the frames would have been fairly simplistic then,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

you know, just, just a framed image?

Brian Ehrenworth:

We were doing what everybody else was doing was taking

Brian Ehrenworth:

a nice image and framing it up while we were actually leading in that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

The department of doing things, people kind of ended

Brian Ehrenworth:

up following our lead on that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But as time went on, we had the licensing, our reputation grew as a legitimate

Brian Ehrenworth:

company that had all the licenses paid all the royalties, et cetera.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So that had people coming to us.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But that the, well, I guess the biggest thing that happened once

Brian Ehrenworth:

we started buying a lot was, was being approached by a, uh, an agent.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Who was a golf agent.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

The golf agent, uh, was Dan Cimoroni.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I name that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I feel like a lot of our listeners will know

Brian Ehrenworth:

he's chefy and, uh, he came to me.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, he knew of our company did some framing here.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We were doing maple leaf gardens framing and the Leafs framing and the

Brian Ehrenworth:

Raptors framing by that was he, would he have been independent at this point

Brian Ehrenworth:

or was he with the largest with IMG

Mikey Ehrenworth:

He was with IMG, which, uh, uh, w w currently

Mikey Ehrenworth:

CAA CAA bought up IMG, I believe

Brian Ehrenworth:

IMG hockey IMG

Brian Ehrenworth:

right, right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, as, uh, a major, uh, entity, but yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, Dan came into the office, set up an appointment and said, uh, I

Brian Ehrenworth:

remember him sitting in my office.

Brian Ehrenworth:

This was 19 or sorry, the biggest thing, 2003.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And he said to me, uh, Brian, uh, I represent a golfer.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, Canadian golfer.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He's a nice guy and he's, you know, he's up and coming.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He's our top Canadian golfer being a golfer myself.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I kinda knew who he was talking about.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He says, just want to tournament out he out West in the Vancouver,

Brian Ehrenworth:

uh, his first major win, I believe.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, I said, well, you're talking about Mike Weir.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And he said, yeah, yeah, he's my client.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I said, well, that's great.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, We don't really do much in golf.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And Mike was good.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He was like our top guy, but didn't have, you know, I didn't

Brian Ehrenworth:

know whether I could market Mike.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Especially, you know, being so focused on hockey, right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It's not, it's not like your clients who like hockey are necessarily going to be

Brian Ehrenworth:

interested.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Don't don't get me wrong.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Mike was an up and coming big name, but we didn't do anything in golf.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I said to him, you know what, I can try.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, we'll do a, a deal.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, I want an exclusive deal if I'm going to put the effort into it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And he said, yeah, that's fine.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He's sure you're the company we want to deal with.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You've got a great reputation.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So we, we did a handshake big deal.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Before we go on there, you mentioned exclusivity.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Right.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Which is, which is something, maybe we take a little bit of a break and explain

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that that was a new idea at the time.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

There was very few people that would do an exclusive deal with you.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Doug would sign for me, but he would also sign at card shows and sign for

Brian Ehrenworth:

AJ's or anybody else that was around

Mikey Ehrenworth:

now a part of, you know, some listeners may hear

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that and think it's, it's selfish.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You know, you want a stranglehold on the market, but this relates back

Mikey Ehrenworth:

to what you're talking about, about autograph signings being the wild West.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

If there is only one place you can get signatures, then there's only one company

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that can authenticate those signatures.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So by striking a deal with an ex, eh, with an exclusive nature, you're

Mikey Ehrenworth:

kind of limiting the variables in whether or not an item is authentic.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So you're, you're increasing the value because it's like, if you want it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

From the source, you have to go to the company with whom they're exclusive.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well, exactly.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well, it, that solved that problem.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, but it also had another advantage, uh, or there was another reason for it,

Brian Ehrenworth:

which is, look, we talked about, uh, uh, sorry, uh, Mike Weir and the fact that we

Brian Ehrenworth:

didn't know what we could do with them.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I had to invest time, effort, um, you know, get some website

Brian Ehrenworth:

designs for it and all that stuff.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And if I'm going to do that, And then he's going to go with everybody else.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I didn't know whether I wanted to put the time and the effort.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And Dan said, no, we're with you.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We'll do an exclusive deal.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We shook hands he walked out and we started to prepare for Mike Weir.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Two weeks later, I'm sitting there watching the masters.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Mike Weir wins.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I was blown away.

Brian Ehrenworth:

This was our.

Brian Ehrenworth:

One of the biggest things that ever happened to the company.

Brian Ehrenworth:

First Canadian golfer to win the masters first left-hander to win the

Brian Ehrenworth:

masters, um, past Phil Mickelson who had, who was close many times before.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And, uh, we were just ecstatic.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I was, um, Counting the dollars that we could make.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, just by example, I think Mike, that following year probably sold close to a

Brian Ehrenworth:

million dollars worth of product for us.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And we weren't doing that much in business that time.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So that was a major part of our business.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Everybody I got the phone was ringing off the hook.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We wanted autograph flags and autograph photos and anything

Brian Ehrenworth:

we could get, which was amazing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Except that was.

Brian Ehrenworth:

In my head before we, we had no contact.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Oh, right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I had a shape handshake deal with Dan.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yep.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, and I'm on pins and needles.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But I'm going along as if, Hey, this is a deal.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We had an agreement.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I'm phoning Dan to see, you know, when we could do our first sign, of course,

Brian Ehrenworth:

Mike was inundated with things that he had to do right after the masters.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Like what?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It doesn't seem like you'd be that busy.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well, I think he even played the following tournament.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I'm not sure, but I know he was here in Toronto dropping the

Brian Ehrenworth:

puck at at maple leaf gardens.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

People forget it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Maybe they do.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Maybe they don't maybe, maybe a center.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah, maybe they're maybe they're young, but too young to have been through it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

But the Canada was all about Mike Weir at this point.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, it was, it was like, you know, everyone in the world was into

Mikey Ehrenworth:

tiger woods when tiger woods was big.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

But when Mike Weir was big, People who did not care about golf, watch golf.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Every he was cannabis hero.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

At that point,

Brian Ehrenworth:

we always joke about Canada having an inferiority

Brian Ehrenworth:

complex about their athletes.

Brian Ehrenworth:

That they're, they're not as good or they, you know, well, going back in my era, it

Brian Ehrenworth:

was like, it was like the NFL versus a CFL and they don't compare and all that stuff.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So when, when a Canadian athlete.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Rose to, to the top of the sports world worldwide in such an international sport,

Brian Ehrenworth:

when the blue Jays won and all that, it's just, it's a different feeling.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So now, uh, two weeks go by, I'm trying to get the signing done.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I get a phone call from Dan says you got to meet us down at IMG.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I thought, Oh shit, here we go.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Hand shake deal.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They're going to walk from the deal.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I was just devastated.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They want to meet with me at their offices, Bloor and Yonge.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I prepare this product line to bring down, to impress them.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We framed up pictures without autographs at our expense, even though, you know,

Brian Ehrenworth:

we didn't have, we just gathered pictures and showed them how impressive our line

Brian Ehrenworth:

could be, bring them all down there.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I sit in the boardroom, there's about four or five big

Brian Ehrenworth:

agents in there and now Mike's got everybody's attention even at IMG.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I'm sitting with them in the group and, uh, I'm waiting for

Brian Ehrenworth:

them to give me the bad news.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I said, you know, guys, this is the line that they were very impressed.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He said, well, uh, you know, how are we going to do this?

Brian Ehrenworth:

I said, well, we still okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Said of course we're okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We gave you a handshake deal and we're going to honor that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But the reason they called me down there was they felt that the deal

Brian Ehrenworth:

should be a different structure because it's so much bigger.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Right, right, right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And that's where we came up with the idea that we would

Brian Ehrenworth:

only sell the products as a framed item.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And we wouldn't sell autograph photos and, you know, odds and

Brian Ehrenworth:

answer that people could junk up by putting them in their own collection.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They wanted a standard set for the look and feel of the wall decor.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So if you, if you wanted a signed masters flag, you had to get

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the standardized style of a masters flag,

Brian Ehrenworth:

You weren't gong to put it in a cheap black frame and whatever.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So it, they wanted a certain standard set.

Brian Ehrenworth:

That was one thing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And they wanted, without going into the details of the, of the contract,

Brian Ehrenworth:

they wanted it more structured as a partnership, as opposed to me buying

Brian Ehrenworth:

autographs one at a time, which was fine with me, uh, partnering with

Brian Ehrenworth:

Mike where at the time was amazing.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And knowing that, that the agency has an interest in, you know,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the aesthetic consistency of their pieces, you know, to keep a certain look and feel

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that's always a good thing you want the person you're working with to be involved.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So that was.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Amazing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And as I said, from that time through the next year, we had sold close to a

Brian Ehrenworth:

million dollars worth of that product.

Brian Ehrenworth:

What was more important that came out of that meeting Mr.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Fortuitous, as I was getting up to leave.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, there was a fellow in that meeting.

Brian Ehrenworth:

His name was Pat Brisson

Mikey Ehrenworth:

little, little . I don't know if anyone's heard of it before time.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

No, not at the time, but now,

Brian Ehrenworth:

you know, an up and coming agent.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, many of you will know that he's one of the leading agents in the business right

Brian Ehrenworth:

now and the most powerful human beings.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He's the number one and the power list of agents.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He'd be number one, I think.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And, and JP Barry, I believe was there who his partner and I, and they

Brian Ehrenworth:

worked for IMG as well out of Toronto.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And so as I'm getting up to leave, I remember Pat saying to me, he

Brian Ehrenworth:

says, Brian, he says, um, I'm here.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I have a hockey player that, um, I'd like you to consider.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I said, well, who is that?

Brian Ehrenworth:

And he said, the name, Sidney Crosby.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I went, Oh, that's interesting.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, I honestly didn't know that much about Sidney.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I heard about them a little bit as some phenom that's coming up and

Brian Ehrenworth:

playing, uh, uh, amazing hockey.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And, uh, I said, well, you know what I said, uh, what's it take?

Brian Ehrenworth:

And he said, well, he said, uh, we're looking for a $50,000 minimum guarantee

Mikey Ehrenworth:

for a, at the time, 14 year old

Brian Ehrenworth:

kid.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I don't even give $50,000 guarantees to most of the current players.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And that's.

Brian Ehrenworth:

What we would have to buy in one year for a kid just leaving Shattuck

Brian Ehrenworth:

Saint Mary and moving to Rimouski.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He wasn't even going to the NHL.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We still had years left and I don't really know much about this guy, but I

Brian Ehrenworth:

do know what Mike Weir is worth to me.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Sure.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And Mike, where was, was going to be our big golden calf.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I was afraid to say, no, I thought if I didn't say yes to Sidney then.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They might pull the Mike Weir deal.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

See, that's an element that I had not heard.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So you, part of the reason why you did it is because you maybe not

Mikey Ehrenworth:

felt that they were pressuring you, but you may have inferred that I

Brian Ehrenworth:

didn't have 50,000 to do it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Oh my God.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I mean, if they saw it, I knew if Mike Weir sold, then I'd have

Brian Ehrenworth:

the money to guarantee, even if I had to waste it or lose it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Right.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So, which, you know, looking back, was it a waste.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, no, he did.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He did.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Just checking just checking.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I remember leaving the meeting, thinking I better

Brian Ehrenworth:

do some homework on this Sidney um, Mike Weir did really well for us.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Thank you, Mike, for, for helping us take it to another level

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And Craig, his brother we've we've worked with for forever

Brian Ehrenworth:

Craig and, and, uh, they didn't get that

Brian Ehrenworth:

got into the winery business.

Brian Ehrenworth:

That's a whole other thing, but so.

Brian Ehrenworth:

As I left, I was really excited about Mike Weir and I knew I had to learn a

Brian Ehrenworth:

little bit more about Sidney Crosby, because I just made a big commitment.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I didn't even have to make that commitment to Mike.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Mike was going to sell regardless.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, so as we left, that was it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

That was how we got Sidney Crosby.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, well it wasn't a final deal Pat had to, Oh, this is another interesting study.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Just Pat had to get permission from.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Troy and Trina Crosby and run it by them, of course.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And

Mikey Ehrenworth:

his parents.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, and he had to kind of go to them on our behalf and say, I've

Brian Ehrenworth:

got this great company Frameworth.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Here's some of the work that they've done.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They just represented Mike Weir, et cetera.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But don't forget.

Brian Ehrenworth:

There were people more knowledgeable than me about hockey at the time.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I'm pretty good, but more.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And, uh, they said that there were other people looking to get

Brian Ehrenworth:

Sidney, uh, under their umbrella.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Um, even knowing about that $50,000 guarantee.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So there were people who knew enough to know that he may be worth $50,000

Mikey Ehrenworth:

at, at, I believe 14, 13 or 14.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He was 15, I think, 15 at the time.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So now we do this.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I'm worried about this deal with Mike, but we now we got, now it's

Brian Ehrenworth:

not a slam dunk that I've got Sidney.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It's just that I committed to it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

If they want us to do it right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Pat Brisson comes up to visit our operation here,

Brian Ehrenworth:

which is fairly impressive.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, we've got about 35,000 square feet in a nice showroom and all that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And so he's doing his homework and I S and he mentioned that he wants

Brian Ehrenworth:

to introduce me to the Crosby's.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, but there's some other people on, on the table.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I didn't know anything about it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We ended up doing the deal with the Crosby's and worked out a nice

Brian Ehrenworth:

contract, again, a partnership type of arrangement, which is still in place

Brian Ehrenworth:

today, but a little while longer, you remember the heritage game, the first

Brian Ehrenworth:

heritage game, outdoor game in Calgary.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yep.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I'm there.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, at the time I am working with, um, I'm working with, uh, Mike Brown of

Brian Ehrenworth:

WG authentic, and Wayne Gretzky had a company WG authentic, and I had done

Brian Ehrenworth:

a little work with Mike, um, trying to do his memorabilia for Wayne's company.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Wayne did his own Memorabilia at the time.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And his brother-in-law Mike Brown prior to upper deck.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah, I'm trying to get these timelines straight.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So we're at this, I think that was the same year, 2003.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, I'm having breakfast with Mike.

Brian Ehrenworth:

In the, uh, hotel, I think it was a Westin and all of a sudden, um, I get,

Brian Ehrenworth:

uh, Mike gets a tap on the shoulder and I looked up and it's Wayne.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You guys mind if I have breakfast with you?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Sorry.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

This seat's taken, sir.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

How dare you.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I'm just.

Brian Ehrenworth:

The the, the, the, the I'm really excited that Wayne wants to sit down.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I had met him a couple of times, and we were doing some

Brian Ehrenworth:

work for Wayne at the time and getting rolling on that operation.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, and during the course of the conversation at the breakfast table,

Brian Ehrenworth:

Sidney's name came up and he said, uh, Wayne said something like, Oh

Brian Ehrenworth:

yeah, did we get that deal, Mike?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Oh my God.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So it turns out that the people that we were.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Bidding against where your partners in was, was WG authentic and Wayne Gretzky.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Cause I didn't know

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that at the time, because our relationship with

Mikey Ehrenworth:

them or Frameworth relationship at the time was essentially we

Mikey Ehrenworth:

would handle all of their framing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

For, for WG authentic.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So we were partners and you were good friends with Mike

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Brown at the time, right?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Like Mike and I became very good friends and I'm still friends with his family.

Brian Ehrenworth:

There's that's a whole other storyline, but tie in with Mike Mike Weir.

Brian Ehrenworth:

That was.

Brian Ehrenworth:

For Wayne to, I didn't know what to say.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I was like, I didn't want to embarrass him.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I literally said to Wayne, I didn't know you were bidding.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I swear.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I didn't know you were bidding on him.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And he looked at me.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He says, you got a really good find.

Brian Ehrenworth:

There that's really good.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He was very gracious about it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We, and I don't know why they came to Frameworth over Wayne

Brian Ehrenworth:

Gretzky at the time I didn't.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And then I found out later they felt that Sidney should be going on his own path.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They felt that if they went with Wayne Gretzky's company, that there

Brian Ehrenworth:

would be too much comparison between Wayne and Sidney as a young kid,

Brian Ehrenworth:

they didn't want him to have to live up to any standards, et cetera.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And so they thought they'd go with a young company that, uh, was,

Brian Ehrenworth:

you know, kind of separate from all that, that was the reason.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And kinda, you know, a family run company, a company

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that that is sort of grassroots that has done a lot, you know, that

Mikey Ehrenworth:

it's a good, it is a good kind of boutique brand to attach your name to.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And we're obviously more than grateful to have had the opportunity

Mikey Ehrenworth:

looking back that year, that first year, that $50,000 a year.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Make or break was, did, did you make money?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Cause I'm trying to wrap my head around how

Brian Ehrenworth:

we were very close.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Keep in mind that a $50,000 guarantee and I won't get into the crunch, the numbers.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It was just a big, big number back in 2003.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, it was, you know, it was hard to, it was going to be hard.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I mean, Sidney's in Rimouski.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah

. Brian Ehrenworth:

Okay.

. Brian Ehrenworth:

He's not playing in the NHL.

. Brian Ehrenworth:

He's getting a lot of media attention.

. Brian Ehrenworth:

I mean, he's on TSN every other night and they're showing highlights as this

. Brian Ehrenworth:

new phenom that's coming into the league.

. Brian Ehrenworth:

But how many times have we heard that?

. Brian Ehrenworth:

Over the years prior to that, remember the name called Alexander Daigle and,

. Brian Ehrenworth:

uh, Ottawa who was supposed to be the next w you know, how many times

. Brian Ehrenworth:

have you heard the next one, right?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, Sidney's living up to that kind of reputation, uh,

Brian Ehrenworth:

without comparing it too closely, the two different things, but, um,

Brian Ehrenworth:

you know, you hear it all the time.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But you don't experience it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's interesting.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Cause I, I was wondering, you know, this back in 2003 was not 2021

Mikey Ehrenworth:

where the hockey market is hot.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's very hot and it's gone through its ups and downs, but 2003 NHL was hard

Mikey Ehrenworth:

enough to sell $50,000 worth of product.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now we're dealing with someone who's in the queue, you know, that, that

Mikey Ehrenworth:

he's not even made the NHL yet.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So I was curious, I actually didn't know that you nearly broke even

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that, that in and of itself is.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You know,

Brian Ehrenworth:

it took a lot of salesmanship.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, you know, we reached out for, you know, that was part of our

Brian Ehrenworth:

success is reaching out to people that, uh, we felt that could move

Brian Ehrenworth:

numbers and it wasn't as much selling to individual people out there.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It was.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I remember going to Avon and putting a program together

Brian Ehrenworth:

where they sold a certain.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Sidney Crosby products in there and Avon books.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I don't know if anybody knows what Avon is, but it was used to be a catalog

Brian Ehrenworth:

door to door type of sales thing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So we would sell 500 here.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I did a deal with Canada bread.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Um, that was, that was after he come into the NHL though.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, yes.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So it was reaching out to people and you had to go find them and tell them

Brian Ehrenworth:

that this is going to be the next great player and they should get on board early.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And then we sold.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So it was a lot of work.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And really it wasn't worth while

Mikey Ehrenworth:

no, it hasn't.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah, no, no real, no real benefit.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And it's paid some great dividends and we've become very,

Brian Ehrenworth:

very close friends over the years.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, it really has, I think provided, uh, the company

Mikey Ehrenworth:

and yourself with an insight into the sporting world because of how intimate.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, your relationship with, you know, the family and Sidney himself had become,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

and it, it does, you know, like it or not put you in a different tier when

Mikey Ehrenworth:

you're the exclusive representation of an elite player like Sidney Crosby's

Mikey Ehrenworth:

now you've just had to, you know, windfalls essentially fall into your lap.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Um, you must have been on a high thinking.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I need to sign as many players as possible.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So take me through the next couple years, because if I'm, if I'm feeling

Mikey Ehrenworth:

immortal, like you must've been at this point in time, I'm putting

Mikey Ehrenworth:

more money down, you know, you, you, you, you buy in a hot market like

Brian Ehrenworth:

that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well, keep in mind that, um, I'm an older guy, so I I'm really trying to

Brian Ehrenworth:

keep these timelines and they cross over and I'm thinking ones before the other,

Brian Ehrenworth:

but as the years went on, we started.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well, of course my relationship with Pat Brisson was became very,

Brian Ehrenworth:

uh, very tight relationship CAA, uh, bought out he, so he bought out

Brian Ehrenworth:

IMG, I believe him and JP Barry.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And they took it to CAA, which is creative artists, which is one of the

Brian Ehrenworth:

biggest talent agencies in the world.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, Jerry Bruckheimer,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

If you've seen entourage, right.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Ari works for CAA essentially.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Is what they're looking at.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They're based out of LA, they moved their operations to LA, um, and Pat

Brian Ehrenworth:

trusted me because of how well we did with Sidney and how we represented him.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Because, you know, don't forget, it's not just about selling autographs.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It's about.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, maintaining the brand and they liked the way we did that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And we were very close with the Crosby's understanding what they

Brian Ehrenworth:

wanted to, how they want it to present Sidney and, and, and Sidney himself.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And we want it to make sure we maintain the, uh, quality image.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yep.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Pat like that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So basically.

Brian Ehrenworth:

As Pat's business grew, so did Frameworth and every CAA, uh, athlete

Brian Ehrenworth:

in the hockey world anyways, would automatically come to Frameworth.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So following it up, I remember meeting Pat Kane for the first time at the all-star

Brian Ehrenworth:

at the awards dinner in Toronto, uh, being introduced when Pat brought Pat Kane,

Brian Ehrenworth:

Pat Brisson brought Pat Kane and to meet Sidney Crosby, um, he wasn't playing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Then he was just about to be drafted.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And he asked Sidney for, to autograph his hockey card.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Wow.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's pretty cool.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's pretty cool.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now, you know, a year or two later, he'd be in that position.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, Pat Kane obviously is one of the best in the league.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I, we got, uh, Jonathan tabes, we got Pat Kane.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We've got, um, you name it, any one of those clients, uh, of Evgeni Malkin all

Brian Ehrenworth:

of the CA clients, which are some of the best, uh, hockey players in the world.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, came to Frameworth pretty much automatically cause they liked our model,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And it was afew consistent years of

Mikey Ehrenworth:

players living up to the hype.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You know what I mean?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Like, like there were no Alex Daigle in that, in that group,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

you know, whoever we are.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So, so again, you're just win after win after win.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well, Pat had a pretty good eye for talent.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I would imagine.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I would imagine he, he played with, I believe Luc robot tie back in

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the, the NHL or was friends with,

Brian Ehrenworth:

they were very good.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Friends.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And that's how Pat got into the agency business.

Brian Ehrenworth:

That's a whole other story.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Maybe, maybe we'll get Pat on here.

Brian Ehrenworth:

One Pat would be pretty good friends.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Um, so I, I, I would imagine then that you're

Mikey Ehrenworth:

still thinking double down.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Did you find yourself in any situations where you had maybe

Mikey Ehrenworth:

bit off, more than you could chew?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, were you thinking that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You were King Midas at this point, everything you touch turns to gold, right?

Brian Ehrenworth:

There were other companies that started following our

Brian Ehrenworth:

model and, and trying to get players exclusively, um, you know, local

Brian Ehrenworth:

Toronto companies that tried to grab this guy and that guy, there was a guy

Brian Ehrenworth:

in Detroit, uh, hockey, Inc hockey.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You, uh, he had some of the Detroit sculptors.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Pascal Dupuis he had a, I think Ovechkin for awhile as well.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So, you know, everybody was.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Everyone's following the model, trying to grab whatever, do

Brian Ehrenworth:

this exclusive thing, obviously.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So now I'm sitting there, we're having a couple of super, super years.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I'm thinking, well, why, why would I let anybody else do that?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Let's just go for the, so I went to Newport, right?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Which is Donnie Meehan's company.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, Uh, I, they had a lot.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So if you want to describe agencies, I would say is my personal thought is

Brian Ehrenworth:

Pat was more of a boutique boutique.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They're looking for not that many players, but top, top notch.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, Donny was ahead of Pat.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So he had lots of clients and they would take on great players.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And they would take on, uh, Wendell Clark was there during the day and all that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So they had a lot of great players.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They would take on a lot of, uh, middle range players.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Did they take on basically anybody that was going to go into the NHL?

Brian Ehrenworth:

That I, as far as I was concerned, but they had a couple of great dad again,

Brian Ehrenworth:

like they had a bunch of guys that had Steven Stamkos coming into the league.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I'm thinking, okay, there's a bunch of new guys coming in.

Brian Ehrenworth:

There was about six or seven that were top-notch.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I went to them, I got a call from them saying, Hey, maybe we can

Brian Ehrenworth:

work out a deal for all of our guys.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I said, wow, this is great.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I went and did that deal and, um, you know,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That means a specific guarantee for every

Mikey Ehrenworth:

player, every player, every player.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And this w when you say every player, this isn't, you know, the four guys,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Crosby Toews, Kane Mulkin, this is.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

W well, another in players, this is 12 players, 10 or 12.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I remember I was working at the company at that time and I was going

Mikey Ehrenworth:

off on signings almost every week.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And I remember at one point just seeing a stack of papers on your desk and it

Mikey Ehrenworth:

was each player's contract and each of those contracts had attached to it

Mikey Ehrenworth:

a guarantee right now, eventually you would imagine you kind of run low on.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, who you can sell to how many, uh, autographs you can sell.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Did you find yourself in a situation where you, you were having trouble keeping?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well, I think I can, I can admit that I, I

Brian Ehrenworth:

got too big for my britches.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, I, I thought I was way better than I was at marketing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I thought our company could do way more, but it turned out that we could not

Brian Ehrenworth:

be it couldn't market all these guys.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

As you know, it's not like they're all coming to you.

Brian Ehrenworth:

The Sidney, the Sidney Crosby model.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I mean, we have to work it, but you know, people would find us,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

it would sell it, the product would sell itself.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And then I had to go and do these signings, meet the players.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I would go down to Tampa and sit with Steve, uh, Stamkos, Stamkos,

Brian Ehrenworth:

and, and actually did one with Lecavalier at the same time.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And all these signings that we did, I was busy getting the signings on,

Brian Ehrenworth:

nevermind marketing the product.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So, um, so.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It, it just didn't work out.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I couldn't keep up the pace

Mikey Ehrenworth:

you wanted to structure the company as well.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It seems like you always had a vision of, you know, you mentioned

Mikey Ehrenworth:

CAA being the boutique company, you know, wanting to focus on fewer.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, people fewer talent and, and really make sure they had

Mikey Ehrenworth:

a brand built around them.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You can't do that when you have so many people, right?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

CAA was a much better fit for us.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, you know, uh, Don me and put some faith into Frameworths.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We didn't live up to that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, we had to buy out a lot of the contracts.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He was gracious enough to let us off the hook and a number of them.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, And if I think if he forced us to buy out all the contracts that I had,

Brian Ehrenworth:

we would have been in serious trouble.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, so w you know, it, it, isn't all roses when we, when, when we

Brian Ehrenworth:

were growing and learning about the industry and I've learned so much about

Brian Ehrenworth:

it and, um, The mistakes you make.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I mean, a friend of mine said the school of hard knocks is the

Brian Ehrenworth:

best school you can learn from.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And sure.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We learned a lot from that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Just don't just stay within your, your zone and do the

, Mikey Ehrenworth:

it, it feels like this is a follows the same trajectory as

, Mikey Ehrenworth:

like the story of Wolf of wall street.

, Mikey Ehrenworth:

You know, without all of the illegalities where you, you just find a couple of

, Mikey Ehrenworth:

things that works, you ride that until all of a sudden it's too much to handle,

, Mikey Ehrenworth:

and there's a little bit of a downfall.

, Mikey Ehrenworth:

And thankfully you were able to recover and, and take the, I guess, for you

, Mikey Ehrenworth:

most important parts of the deals that you had and make sure that none of your

, Mikey Ehrenworth:

clients got hurt in that process was probably pretty important to you as well.

, Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You know, there's a very fine line

Brian Ehrenworth:

between, um, for an entrepreneur.

Brian Ehrenworth:

That has to do with, to be successful in business.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You have to, in many cases, at least in my case, you have to be aggressive.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You want to be the best you want to be the, uh, the most important

Brian Ehrenworth:

you, you don't want any deal going anywhere else that you could do.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And that's how you get.

Brian Ehrenworth:

To, to the top of the food chain, um, in, in sometimes, um, there's other

Brian Ehrenworth:

ways to do it, but that's the way I do.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Sure.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And so my aggressive nature, um, is what built this company.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I mean, I signed a Sidney Crosby $50,000 minimum guarantee.

Brian Ehrenworth:

That was a good thing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Maybe it was some, maybe it was Alexander Daigle and that

Brian Ehrenworth:

would have been a bad thing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So fortuitous comes into play, but on the other hand, You don't want the

Brian Ehrenworth:

other guy getting an exclusive over you.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So you maybe do a deal that you normally wouldn't do because you

Brian Ehrenworth:

don't want it to go to the other guy.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And when you think that way, that's a big mistake.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I mean,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

it was at that time time as well, it seemed like every

Mikey Ehrenworth:

company had come up trying to get those exclusive deals, take a risk

Mikey Ehrenworth:

on someone and hope that it pays off.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It felt like every year, every top five, 10 draft picks was assigned to one of

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the, the, uh, big entities out there.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And I think that that was necessary for a time.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You know, if you look at, if you look at where the industry was back when you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

started in the wild West, at least now there are more reasonable, smaller pockets

Mikey Ehrenworth:

of companies you go to for something you know, is going to be legitimate.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's not what it used to be though.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's not like every player has an exclusive arrangement with someone,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

but it feels as though they kind of play ball with a few select

Mikey Ehrenworth:

companies where, you know, you have some sort of trustworthy rapport

Mikey Ehrenworth:

for, so it, it almost started here.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And at the bottom ended up skyrocketing and now it's sort of oscillated and end

Mikey Ehrenworth:

up right there in the middle somewhere.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And where are the same way we have fewer exclusive agreements.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, but the ones that we do, we take very seriously and we also have the ability

Mikey Ehrenworth:

to go through some reputable sources to get in touch with the players themselves.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And that that's important for everyone.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I don't want to be that guy that gets everybody, but

Brian Ehrenworth:

I'll tell you, what we did do is we changed the way people think, even

Brian Ehrenworth:

for companies like upper deck, Um, fanatics, uh, fanatics used to buy

Brian Ehrenworth:

their autographs from us, right?

Brian Ehrenworth:

The writing was on the wall.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They're that big, that sooner or later, they're going to approach

Brian Ehrenworth:

the players and they, and they did

Mikey Ehrenworth:

for those who, who aren't aware of the

Mikey Ehrenworth:

trajectory that fanatics took.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, they started as more of a, if I, if I'm correct about this, they

Mikey Ehrenworth:

started more as the backend web platform for companies like mounted

Mikey Ehrenworth:

memories and which was in the, for the NFL and, and the NFL fan shop.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And they.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Eventually got into hockey, uh, develop their platform to a point where they

Mikey Ehrenworth:

were running nhl.com and shop dot nhl.com, uh, and selling most of those

Mikey Ehrenworth:

growing exponentially.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I remember early on in this industry going to various memorabilia websites

Mikey Ehrenworth:

and recognizing the outline on a lot of like the template for a lot

Mikey Ehrenworth:

of these websites were the same.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And if you scroll down to the bottom, sure enough, it was powered

Mikey Ehrenworth:

by mounted memories are powered by fanatics and, and like you say, you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

know, you don't stop a company that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That gets that kind of momentum from just coming into your

Mikey Ehrenworth:

territory and doing it themselves.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Why would they,

Brian Ehrenworth:

for most cases, money talks.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So these guys, uh, upper deck, uh, uh, um, fanatics and those

Brian Ehrenworth:

guys they've got the deep pockets.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, they're still players that it's not about money.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, believe it or not, it's not about money to Sidney.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It's about relationships, right?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Same with Carey price.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And that's how we keep these guys because I don't have the

Brian Ehrenworth:

money to throw at these guys.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We'll do a good job.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And we, we max out what, what they get, but when the players are coming into

Brian Ehrenworth:

the league, McDavid's a good example.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, AJS is another memorabilia dealer here.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, they, they took our model and went and got.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Connor McDavid.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right?

Brian Ehrenworth:

In the early stages, they saw an up and coming player.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They heard a lot.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I was asleep at the switch.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Didn't know it was coming.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They got him.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, and for the first year or two, even when he was down in Erie and

Brian Ehrenworth:

then up here in the NHL, they had an exclusive arrangement with them.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And that is, you know, they're nice.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Guys drove me crazy.

Brian Ehrenworth:

How did I miss that?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Sure, sure.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, but Connor.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Eventually when the contract was due, went for the big money.

Brian Ehrenworth:

When he went to a fanatics upper deck, upper deck, sorry.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He went to the upper deck.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, So for him, it was about the exposure to the, where the money was.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, uh, you know, AJS is, is a good solid company.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They're, they're not on the level that upper deck is who

Brian Ehrenworth:

in any doors in the world.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So he made that choice.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We're fortunate enough that with, with the players that we have,

Brian Ehrenworth:

we value them, but there's always that, um, that way, that the.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Memorabilia dealers like ourselves are looking for that next up and

Brian Ehrenworth:

coming, of course, as Lafreniere next guy, upper deck got him too.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I was told about him.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, but there's no guaranteed.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Now he will be a great player.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Will he be a McDavid or a Crosby or, or a Gretzky?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Maybe.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Maybe not right now.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He's not living up to that hype.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He's good.

Brian Ehrenworth:

He's not living up there.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

The fact is though, regardless, everyone knows agents know.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

A company is going to be willing to pay that kind of money before

Mikey Ehrenworth:

they even make the league.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, that kind of takes us out of the equation or our companies of our

Mikey Ehrenworth:

size out of the equation, unless they want that focus on a boutique smaller

Mikey Ehrenworth:

company that can, that can kind of benefit that's and that's a, it's tough.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's it's not going to be the case with most players, I don't think.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I'm at the age now where I'm not going to stress about it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I'm not, I, we have a very successful business, so I'm not going to be.

Brian Ehrenworth:

All worried about, we missed out on anybody.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, I, if I want the product from McDavid, I'll go to upper deck and

Brian Ehrenworth:

I'll buy that product and we resell it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It's not a lot of money in it for reselling those guys.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Sure, sure.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But, uh, if there's players, we have a great reputation.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So literally we've just signed.

Brian Ehrenworth:

An exclusive deal with Josh Anderson when he moved to, um, when we moved

Brian Ehrenworth:

to Montreal, we just signed reassigned a three-year deal with Carey price.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, these are some of the biggest names out there.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, we just did a deal with Shea Weber, right?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, so we have those players that come on board, uh, out of nowhere that thinking

Brian Ehrenworth:

that I'm upper deck and all those guys are making bids for them, they stay with us or

Brian Ehrenworth:

they come to us because they hear about.

Brian Ehrenworth:

How we treat the players, what we do for them, what we do for their families.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It's we treat them like our family, uh, and they appreciate that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So we do that

Mikey Ehrenworth:

and that's kind of the hope and, and, you know, again started

Mikey Ehrenworth:

out the wild West and, and you kind of took it upon yourself to, to change

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that in a way, at least for yourself.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And it ends up being something that's industry-wide, you know, you talk about

Mikey Ehrenworth:

in the beginning, not knowing who you can go to for a legitimately authentic.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You know, Doug Gilmour, autograph, or whomever, if you're not

Mikey Ehrenworth:

going direct to the source.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And now to bring this full circle, Matt Ellenberger's, a Facebook

Mikey Ehrenworth:

group, don't they have a question.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

If you want to enter, who is the exclusive, uh, supplier of Sidney Crosby

Mikey Ehrenworth:

memorabilia, and then in brackets, all collectors should know this.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And the answer is Frameworth.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You know what?

Brian Ehrenworth:

That was one of the nicest things I ever read.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I went, I went to join that group and it just kind of made me

Brian Ehrenworth:

understand that, you know, I've just still consider us a picture frame

Brian Ehrenworth:

company that deals with players.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We're so fortunate, but I didn't realize the level that we're on and the

Brian Ehrenworth:

respect that we have in the industry.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So when I went to join that Facebook page and it was all about Sidney

Brian Ehrenworth:

Crosby memorabilia and to get into the group, you have to add answer some.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, two or three questions just to make sure that you're legitimate.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And th and that one question was, who's the exclusive dealer for Sidney Crosby.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I'm giving you guys all the answers, if you want to join

Brian Ehrenworth:

the group it's Frameworth.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But, um, but to see that that was pretty cool.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's great.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And you brought it full circle.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That is about our time, but I love that journey.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That is a, it is a picture perfect story of, uh, having some fortuitous luck.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Maybe taking it a little bit too far and then landing right

Mikey Ehrenworth:

where you want to be a dad.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Thanks again for sharing everything.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Anything you want to say before we sign off?

Brian Ehrenworth:

No, I think we've got a, we would love you guys to tell your

Brian Ehrenworth:

friends about it and let's join the group.

Brian Ehrenworth:

The bigger the fan base.

Brian Ehrenworth:

The more we can do for you.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We've got some great guests coming up.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, I've got a whole list of guys that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We've dealt with over the past.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I just heard from Gary Roberts, I'm trying to get him on here.

Brian Ehrenworth:

A lot of these guys come here to do some framing, so I hit when they're here.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So they benefit.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So you can hear all of our social media handles to come join the community.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Also, if you have any questions, make sure to send us an email

Mikey Ehrenworth:

at signoffpod@frameworth.com.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We're going to start addressing some of the, uh, the viewer mail that we get.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And if they have any questions for you, dad, uh, they can definitely send

Mikey Ehrenworth:

those along as well for some insight that maybe they wouldn't have known

Mikey Ehrenworth:

otherwise, but yeah, to answer anybody.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Awesome.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, so, uh, on behalf of myself and Mikey, Ehrenworth and Brian Ehrenworth president

Mikey Ehrenworth:

of Frameworth, uh, this is us signing off

Mikey Ehrenworth:

well, ladies, and gentlemen, we made it to the end of yet another episode.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Thanks again so much for joining us.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You can find videos of all of our episodes on YouTube by

Mikey Ehrenworth:

searching the sign-off podcast.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You can also follow us on Twitter at Frameworth score or

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Instagram at FrameworthSports.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Hey, if you're not sick of me yet, you can find me on Twitter over

Mikey Ehrenworth:

at, @RetrogradeMikey, or you can always find me embarrassing myself

Mikey Ehrenworth:

over on Instagram @Ehrenworth.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

The sign-off is a proud product of Fadoo productions and Sad Styles,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

productions, executive producers, Mikey, Ehrenworth, and Andrew Bascom.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Until next week

Mikey Ehrenworth:

this is Mikey Ehrenworth signing off

Sad Styles:

furnished by sad styles, production.

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About the Podcast

The Sign Off: A Frameworth Podcast
A behind the scenes look at Sports Marketing from those who helped invent it
Welcome to The Sign Off: A Frameworth Podcast.

This is a forum for all the stories you didn't know you WISHED you knew about the inner workings of the world of Sports Marketing.

Away from the arenas, there's a lot more that goes on behind the scenes, and it's often precisely where some of the most amazing stories take root.

Join us as we explore how every day people come together with a passion and fandom towards sports to form the web of industry which serves as an integral element of the games we all know and love.

About your host

Profile picture for Mikey Ehrenworth

Mikey Ehrenworth