Episode 1

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Published on:

1st Apr 2021

Episode 1: Darryl Sittler and the 10 Point Night

Welcome to the first episode of The Sign Off!

Today we're lucky enough to be joined by Toronto Maple Leafs legend and NHL Hall of Famer Darryl Sittler!

Everyone is familiar with the infamous game in which Darryl Sittler scored 10 points for the Leafs, but what most people don't realize is just how much of an impact that moment had on the world of Sports Marketing and Sports Memorabilia.

Darryl shares stories of his influence on this business and shows us how much of an effect he's had not only on the ice, but off of it as well.

Transcript
Sad Styles:

Coming up a sad styles, production.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Hello and welcome.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

This is Mikey Ehrenworth signing on to the sign-off A Frameworth podcast.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's a forum for all the stories you didn't know, you wished you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

knew about the inner workings of the world of sports marketing.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

This is a passion project, or at least it started as one sewn together by two

Mikey Ehrenworth:

people, myself and my dad or daddy, Brian.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We're not sure what to call him.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Brian Ehrenworth and myself who have been working in this industry

Mikey Ehrenworth:

for a combined 50 years or so.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And really it's a story of how everyday people come together with a passion

Mikey Ehrenworth:

and fandom towards sports to form the web of industry, which serves

Mikey Ehrenworth:

as the background for these games.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We all know and love.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now, since this is the first time a lot of you will be hearing my voice.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

At least in this context, I'd like to explain kind of what this podcast is going

Mikey Ehrenworth:

to be and how we want to structure it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Every episode I'd like to pose a sort of question or thesis that opens

Mikey Ehrenworth:

up a part of the world of sports, marketing and sports memorabilia

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that you may not even be aware of.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now, this is where I want to draw a specific distinction.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

This is not a podcast about Frameworth.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Rather.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's a peek behind the curtain using our experiences at Frameworth as

Mikey Ehrenworth:

a way to explore exactly how one might get involved in this world.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It starts with the skeleton of a company which initially sold art before it learned

Mikey Ehrenworth:

how to find the artistry in sport in that comes the experiences that we've all had.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Namely, my dad, Brian Ehrenworth daddy.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I can't remember what are we calling him?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Let's go with dad.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You can call him dad too, if you want.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I'm sure he'd love it, but I'm going to have a chance to sit down with him

Mikey Ehrenworth:

and ask him all the questions that I'm personally curious about, and that I think

Mikey Ehrenworth:

you may be curious about as well, he'll be able to use some of his anecdotes and,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

uh, let me tell you some of the stories that he has are kind of mind blowing.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I know some of them, but I'm selfishly almost just as excited to do this

Mikey Ehrenworth:

podcast as you might be to listen to it, namely, because some of these

Mikey Ehrenworth:

are stories I don't even know about.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So that's it though.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I don't want to talk too much.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I don't want this to be about me as much as I do love the sound of my own voice.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And hopefully you don't mind it too much.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I want to get to the next segment.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We want to show you a world which exists beyond the record books and

Mikey Ehrenworth:

reveal that every single night in every single game there exists the

Mikey Ehrenworth:

potential for a life-changing moment, which gives birth to heroes, legends,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

and moments, which will forever change the narrative of their sport.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We're going to be sitting down with Darryl Sittler himself to talk

Mikey Ehrenworth:

about his infamous 10 point night.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And break down just how long that night has lasted.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

all right.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And welcome back.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Of course, to the sign-off podcast brought to you by Frameworth, I'm

Mikey Ehrenworth:

here joined by a two special guests.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

One special guest is someone who I know is very near and dear to my heart.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I'm going to struggle actually over the course of this podcast, because I'm

Mikey Ehrenworth:

actually recording this with my dad.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's Brian Ehrenworth.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And I think I'm probably going to slip up and call you dad over the course of this.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Maybe daddy, who knows.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I'm not sure whatever ends up feeling comfortable for you.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's what I'm going for.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Darryl.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I promise you.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I'll try not to call you today.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I'll call you Papa.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

There you go.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Here I am.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I'm with daddy and Papa in the recording studio live at Frameworth.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So obviously that voice that you just heard is Darryl Sitler Toronto

Mikey Ehrenworth:

maple leaf legends, who is actually an integral part of the sports

Mikey Ehrenworth:

memorabilia in sports marketing world.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Like we always do on this podcast is take a look not just at

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the sports side of things, but more of the business around it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

How sports memorabilia comes to influence the players, the coaches, teams,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

corporations, and the fans themselves.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And give you a little peek behind the curtain, into the business of that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

For that we rely on the expertise of Brian Ehrenworth.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Who's sitting to my left.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Brian, you want to introduce yourself, dad?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah, no, I'm here and I'm really thrilled

Brian Ehrenworth:

to have Darryl dropped by.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, we've been working together for many years and, um, I, I consider

Brian Ehrenworth:

him a personal friend, uh, We've done a lot of work, uh, and going right

Brian Ehrenworth:

back to the 10 point night piece.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And even before that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And this goes back to when I was just starting

Brian Ehrenworth:

out in business for my father's company and we'll get into all that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And one of the reasons why I'm excited to have you on Darryl

Mikey Ehrenworth:

as our first guest to the podcast is because, uh, I'm sure you're aware of

Mikey Ehrenworth:

it at this point, but a piece that you had done in the 1970s, I believe, right?

Darryl Sitler:

Yes.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Was was, uh, one of the first actual sports memorabilia pieces

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that not only did Frameworth did, but that ended up becoming a mainstream success.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And I want to get into a little bit of how that happened, what the story is behind.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Moving from signed artists' works to sign pieces of sports memorabilia and

Mikey Ehrenworth:

a little bit, uh, but Darryl, what, what were your memories of that?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, this would have been well before the time.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I'm assuming you would have been joining in any sort of large scale.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Piece of memorabilia or a project like that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Is that, is that fair to say?

Darryl Sitler:

Very fair.

Darryl Sitler:

Um, so back in the seventies, um, obviously the Leafs are big draw in.

Darryl Sitler:

Yeah.

Darryl Sitler:

Not only in Toronto, but

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I've heard of them.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I've heard them pretty well, actually.

Darryl Sitler:

Yeah.

Darryl Sitler:

So the fact that I was playing for them and, uh, along with guys like

Darryl Sitler:

Borje and Lanny and tiger, um, lots of interest and we had a pretty good

Darryl Sitler:

hockey club in the seventies there.

Darryl Sitler:

So, uh, when Mr.

Darryl Sitler:

Ehrenworth, uh, came to me, um, Uh, they had an artist.

Darryl Sitler:

I'm not even sure they artists named today, uh, at

Brian Ehrenworth:

Marvin Sobel I think

Darryl Sitler:

He did a nice piece in action shot of me

Darryl Sitler:

and, uh, asked me to sign him.

Darryl Sitler:

And, you know, again, when you start out, you don't know where

Darryl Sitler:

the business is going to go to.

Darryl Sitler:

Obviously I was paid per signature and, and, uh, when you got, we, weren't making

Darryl Sitler:

a lot of money back in those days, you did some supplemental, uh, Money from outside

Darryl Sitler:

of the game, you take advantage of that.

Darryl Sitler:

And the other thing is it, the fans appreciate it.

Darryl Sitler:

Uh, I look around now, all these years later, I go into maybe a

Darryl Sitler:

sports bar or somebody's home.

Darryl Sitler:

And there's a piece that we did years and years ago that they treasure.

Darryl Sitler:

It's the thing that's important to the person who bothered her, has it to.

Darryl Sitler:

You know, to, to admire it and show it off.

Darryl Sitler:

So all those things are, are good things.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now, uh, dad, do you want to talk a little bit

Mikey Ehrenworth:

about what it was like going from, you know, Frameworth, actually

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Frameguild is, is how it started out.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And, uh, it was primarily an art company, you know, and prior to that would sell.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Just the actual components to make a frame sports piece.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now you, as someone who's in that industry, at that point, you don't

Mikey Ehrenworth:

have much of a relation to the world of sports, sports, marketing,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

athletes, anything like that?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

This is kind of new to you, correct?

Brian Ehrenworth:

No, the only thing when I started out working for my father's

Brian Ehrenworth:

company, when Darryl refers to Mr.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Ehrenworth it, I believe he's referring to my dad.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Oh, that wasn't me.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I thought you were talking about me.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I thought I was now Mr.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Ehrenworth a lot of people only let that happen when...

Brian Ehrenworth:

you got to wait.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But, um, mystery is they call him and he,

Brian Ehrenworth:

uh, he was in the art business.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We did framing for the art galleries, but there was a concept as we've talked

Brian Ehrenworth:

about that, um, was new to the industry.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And it started out with, um, not so much sports celebrities, but

Brian Ehrenworth:

big, uh, politicians, et cetera.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Golden.

Brian Ehrenworth:

My year, I think was one of the first ones, the time magazine put

Brian Ehrenworth:

out, um, With the artists doing the piece and then getting the

Brian Ehrenworth:

celebrity or a politician to sign it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And so dad came up with this idea of.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Doing a sports piece, the Leafs were so hot.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And, uh, I used to use the only thing about sports that I got out of the company

Brian Ehrenworth:

was the company hockey tickets where I used to go watch Darryl play all the time.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Only thing.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

The only thing you got out of this was...

Brian Ehrenworth:

a little bit of background knowledge.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Fair, fair.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I agreed with the system.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, I was of course, a huge hockey fan and was thrilled to see Darryl and Borje come

Brian Ehrenworth:

walking into the office to do the signing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I think at some point, um, because this is visual, we'll have a photograph.

Brian Ehrenworth:

My, we did, I did find the two photos of my dad holding up the

Brian Ehrenworth:

piece with Darryl and Borje.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, and it brings back some great memories.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So that's how that piece evolved.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And it was relatively new back in those days.

Brian Ehrenworth:

If, if they were signing autographs, it was for an autograph book or something

Brian Ehrenworth:

to hang on the ha you know, basically sitting in a drawer or a binder.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It really wasn't art or wall Decor at the time.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So this was one of the first pieces and Darryl and Borje were big part of that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It feels almost like it was a convergence of two different mediums.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

One was, you know, you'd have the autograph hound.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I'm assuming Darryl, at this point you would have had people coming up to you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

all the time and asking for an autograph.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

The difference is, was the purpose of this autograph was to be put

Mikey Ehrenworth:

on someone's wall and have that exist as almost a work of art.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And that's why I bring up the convergence there

Darryl Sitler:

yeah.

Darryl Sitler:

And the other part of it was they were limited edition.

Darryl Sitler:

So it gave it.

Darryl Sitler:

More of a value.

Darryl Sitler:

You knew you had one of 1000 or whatever, the number we did back then.

Darryl Sitler:

So it created more value for the purchaser, for sure.

Darryl Sitler:

And when I would do those things and Brian knows, um, I always try

Darryl Sitler:

to put something away for my family.

Darryl Sitler:

I'd always try to get number 27, the, you know, print and

Darryl Sitler:

probably have that somewhere.

Darryl Sitler:

Not sure where, but...

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Now, number, number 27.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, I'm sure you get asked this question all the time, but you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

have a story behind why that was the number that you settled on.

Darryl Sitler:

No, I didn't, uh, I didn't have any choice in the

Darryl Sitler:

matter when I was playing, uh, for London nights, I was number nine.

Darryl Sitler:

I came to Leafs training camp as a first round pick.

Darryl Sitler:

I always remember the moment Jim Gregory, the general manager took me down to

Darryl Sitler:

the leaf dressing room and, uh, he just said, you'll be sitting over there.

Darryl Sitler:

And he pointed, and I saw 27 Jersey.

Darryl Sitler:

And.

Darryl Sitler:

I remember the emotional feeling I had with that.

Darryl Sitler:

I knew Frank Mahovlich, they each had one 27, 27 was a number that

Darryl Sitler:

was around the league too much.

Darryl Sitler:

It was a little bit different, so to speak.

Darryl Sitler:

So the fact that they were giving me 27 was to me was an honor.

Darryl Sitler:

And that's kind of how it all happened.

Darryl Sitler:

Uh, not to go into too much detail of it, but all these years later,

Darryl Sitler:

there's a lot of things around 27 in my life, I was born September

Darryl Sitler:

18th, which was added up it's 27.

Darryl Sitler:

My 10 point game was February 7th, Two-Seven.

Darryl Sitler:

Um, Canada cup goal, I scored with eight 27 left.

Darryl Sitler:

It was inducted in the hall of fame in 1989.

Darryl Sitler:

If you add that up, it's 27.

Darryl Sitler:

So it's crazy how 27 and those are only a few, uh, are meaningful in my life today

Darryl Sitler:

. Mikey Ehrenworth: So you should, uh,

Darryl Sitler:

Jim Carrey movie, the number 23, it's just the same number repeating

Darryl Sitler:

over and over and over again.

Darryl Sitler:

Uh, my dad likes to brag about the fact that he's born June 5th,

Darryl Sitler:

1956, which is five, six, five six.

Darryl Sitler:

So that's another one.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I didn't even realize that until.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, I saw Sidney Crosby's 87, which is August 7th 87, which is why he wears 87.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, I'm five, six, five, six.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But it's funny.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You should mention, cause I was going to ask you about that.

Darryl Sitler:

Oh my anniversary with Wendy.

Darryl Sitler:

I was born there.

Darryl Sitler:

We were married on June the fifth.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Oh my dad's jealous.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

All of a sudden he goes so things you could have gone,

Brian Ehrenworth:

but I know.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I'm wondering if that's the case with a lot of players or just a few, but

Brian Ehrenworth:

I know Sidney Crosby is the same way he's got that 87 just pops up and

Brian Ehrenworth:

maybe it's just because you're looking for it, but it's too coincidental.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, but you had told me that story and I was going to ask you about it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Cause I know he's very big on things that happen for sure.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

If you could have chosen a number, do you know

Mikey Ehrenworth:

what it would have been, would have been number nine with London?

Darryl Sitler:

No.

Darryl Sitler:

You know what?

Darryl Sitler:

I'm uh, I'm the type of guy who, if somebody gives me whatever

Darryl Sitler:

they give me, I'll take it.

Darryl Sitler:

I wouldn't go in there expecting anything.

Darryl Sitler:

If they would've given me a number nine would have been great.

Darryl Sitler:

Cause number nine was the number back then, you know, Gordy Howe.

Darryl Sitler:

And normally almond had that number in Toronto.

Darryl Sitler:

So,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Well if you, if you'll take anything, people give you,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I've got a great business opportunity.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, it starts at the top.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Listen, all you need are six people who will buy from you.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And then, but I make a cut from that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And then the person above me makes a cut from

Darryl Sitler:

That's a pyramid scheme

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Listen, we don't like, we like to call it

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the reverse triangle scheme.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's that's, that's how we do it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, so to go back to memorabilia a little bit, uh, I liked

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the little sidetrack there.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's a story I actually didn't know.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

But, um, at the time that you're talking about doing this, uh, this piece with

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Borje yourself and, and Frameworth was the Frameworth at the time or Frameguild?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Frameguild.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Okay.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Um, what do you did a signature mean at that point?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Growing up?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Did you have a collection of signatures?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Were you familiar with this industry or was that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Or did you wait for athletes to just give you signatures and you'd take them?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Cause you'll just take what they'll give you.

Darryl Sitler:

Well, I'll tell you a cute story.

Darryl Sitler:

Um, so we grew up in a family of eight kids.

Darryl Sitler:

My dad was paycheck to paycheck, never had an opportunity to go to

Darryl Sitler:

maple leaf gardens and watch a game.

Darryl Sitler:

But my dad happened to get some.

Darryl Sitler:

Exhibition tickets in Kitchener, ranger, Rangers were playing Chicago Blackhawks.

Darryl Sitler:

Okay.

Darryl Sitler:

So I'm seven or eight at the time to September night after the game, we're

Darryl Sitler:

standing out in the parking lot where the players come to go to the bus.

Darryl Sitler:

I'm standing there with a little piece of paper and a pencil, not even a pen.

Darryl Sitler:

Hoping to get an autograph.

Darryl Sitler:

A number of guys just filed by me on just under the bias and the bias,

Darryl Sitler:

you know, and you're disappointed.

Darryl Sitler:

You're waiting.

Darryl Sitler:

And then finally two guys stopped.

Darryl Sitler:

One was Bobby Hall, the star for the Blackhawks and the

Darryl Sitler:

other was Andy Bathgate.

Darryl Sitler:

He was captain of the Rangers and I'll always remember

Darryl Sitler:

the feeling I had as a kid.

Darryl Sitler:

Getting those autographs and the type of guy I am, I took them home and I

Darryl Sitler:

got tracing paper and I traced them.

Darryl Sitler:

So I could give them to my buddies, you know, entrepreneurial sell them.

Darryl Sitler:

That's amazing.

Darryl Sitler:

But anyway, my message to your listeners out there is

Darryl Sitler:

first impressions are lasting.

Darryl Sitler:

Yeah, good, bad or indifferent.

Darryl Sitler:

Right.

Darryl Sitler:

And, uh, I'll always remember that.

Darryl Sitler:

And then when I got into the position as a, as a player, not only with

Darryl Sitler:

the London Knights, but with the Leafs and a kid comes up to you,

Darryl Sitler:

I always remembered my feeling.

Darryl Sitler:

Of being patient and waiting and, and what it would mean to that kid,

Darryl Sitler:

you know, you could disappoint them or you could, you could please him.

Darryl Sitler:

So when you talk about autographs, uh, as a player, yeah, they're very meaningful.

Darryl Sitler:

Then as, as times changed and things grew grow, it became more of a business.

Darryl Sitler:

That's what your business is here, you know?

Darryl Sitler:

And, and, and it's very competitive business.

Darryl Sitler:

So you have to be.

Darryl Sitler:

And the, in the later years, more protective and more conscientious

Darryl Sitler:

about who you're giving it to how you're doing it, what they're using

Darryl Sitler:

it for and those sorts of things.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So that's, that's great actually.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And it leads into what my next question was going to be, which was kind of

Mikey Ehrenworth:

how your perception of signatures, autographs, and Memorabilia in general

Mikey Ehrenworth:

has changed since, you know, from your time as a kid growing up, hoping to get

Mikey Ehrenworth:

autographs to the understanding now that there exists an economy around these

Mikey Ehrenworth:

things, Uh, and, and you mentioned being careful about kind of who you give it to.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And how often do you find yourself in situations where, um, you're

Mikey Ehrenworth:

struggling with the idea of, should I indulge this person or do I believe it

Mikey Ehrenworth:

may be going towards somewhere that, that I'm not quite comfortable with?

Darryl Sitler:

Well, you never want to be taken advantage of it.

Darryl Sitler:

Right.

Darryl Sitler:

And if I feel that I'm in a situation and somebody is making you uncomfortable

Darryl Sitler:

with that, I, I bring attention to it, you know, and, and see how they respond.

Darryl Sitler:

Um,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

and do you find that's more on the street or would

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that be an actual formal cause I know you're, you're very involved

Mikey Ehrenworth:

now with the business of sports.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Do you find it's, it's a mix of both of those, or

Darryl Sitler:

it's a mix of both of them.

Darryl Sitler:

I mean, if I'm down at the air Canada center or the Scotiabank center, uh,

Darryl Sitler:

with Wendell doing my job, so to speak PR on a, on an evening at the game and

Darryl Sitler:

somebody asks for an autograph or sign something, Hey, I just do that then.

Darryl Sitler:

Sure.

Darryl Sitler:

They do, but say I'mdoing a paid signing and I'm there.

Darryl Sitler:

And somebody comes in with all these extra items, uh, you know, uh, you

Darryl Sitler:

know, he's in the business and he's just there to take advantage of you.

Darryl Sitler:

Um, uh, I address it, you know, and yeah, lots of times do you go into those

Darryl Sitler:

things and you say one or two per person, because you know, that's a fair thing.

Darryl Sitler:

And what happens to over the years of Brian knows.

Darryl Sitler:

Those faces become familiar with guys, like guys, they show up

Darryl Sitler:

everywhere, you know, so you, you know, you kind of get a feel for why

Darryl Sitler:

they're there and what they're doing.

Darryl Sitler:

And, and, uh, uh, that's, that's a little bit a part of the business

Darryl Sitler:

that I don't think, you know, the athletes like, you know, when you're

Darryl Sitler:

being taken advantage of, of course

Brian Ehrenworth:

in defense of that, or so I get a lot of feedback on,

Brian Ehrenworth:

you know, sometimes, you know, on the internet, anybody can be a big voice and

Brian Ehrenworth:

a lot of people criticize players for making money off autographs, et cetera.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I always address it this way.

Brian Ehrenworth:

First of all, there's two components to the, to the memorability of business.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And one is what you've just said.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I don't know any player, especially hockey players who are awesome

Brian Ehrenworth:

with fans, uh, much more.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So I think, than any other sport.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I've been around a lot

Mikey Ehrenworth:

to clarify, you mean, you don't know any who

Mikey Ehrenworth:

aren't awesome with fans, right?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Sorry.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I said that wrong, but there they're generally, if there's a kid in the street,

Brian Ehrenworth:

Sidney Crosby, Darryl Sitler any of the big names and you bring a Bobby Hull.

Brian Ehrenworth:

One of my fondest memories was the exact same Bobby Hull.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I think set the set.

Brian Ehrenworth:

The standard...

Mikey Ehrenworth:

He comes up in these stores

Brian Ehrenworth:

being gracious to fans, et cetera, especially

Brian Ehrenworth:

in, in, in signings today.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But the players have always been happy to sign.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They go to hospitals, they sign for kids in the street and

Brian Ehrenworth:

there's no charge, obviously.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It's, it's just something they do.

Brian Ehrenworth:

As Darryl mentioned.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, but then there's the business side it's like stamp collecting.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So the business side of it is for people that want to buy and sell

Brian Ehrenworth:

autographs and know that the value is going to be, uh, maintained.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So by buying it and going to an authentic company, like Frameworth or AJS or upper

Brian Ehrenworth:

deck or any of those companies, They know that they're buying something, uh,

Brian Ehrenworth:

that can be resold as a collectible.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So that's a, that's a business side and it's, it's a booming, booming business.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And so the players are entitled to make their share of that because otherwise

Brian Ehrenworth:

they'd be sitting there doing nothing but signing all day long and there would be

Brian Ehrenworth:

no value to the autographs because what you get for free is being sold for free.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So, how do you, how do you, uh, accumulate any money?

Brian Ehrenworth:

So there's the collector side and that's a buy and sell deal.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And then there's for the fans that are just outside the building and

Brian Ehrenworth:

the players do the best to get it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And that's the big distinguishing factor.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And that's why the players are entitled.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Like anybody else to make the money off the autographs.

Brian Ehrenworth:

When it's a business.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And I think it's important that you mentioned this Darryl as well, because,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

uh, part of that, uh, part of the legitimacy and the economy of autographs

Mikey Ehrenworth:

and sports memorabilia, uh, it does depend on both sides playing ball, so to speak.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It depends on the athletes being aware of what's happening with their autographs.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

The business is being aware of how to properly market them in it as well.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Some of the, uh, the, the collectors themselves, not to, you know, flood

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the markets or especially avoid forgeries and do their due diligence

Mikey Ehrenworth:

to know what it is they're looking for.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, but from you from more of a personal level, um, uh, obviously you've kind

Mikey Ehrenworth:

of broken out on the other side of the world of sports memorabilia,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

uh, being an athlete yourself.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, but do you collect at all?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Do you have any pieces yourself right now that might be hanging up maybe in your

Mikey Ehrenworth:

garage, it could be, you know, a piece of a moment that, that you appreciate

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that you went through or from someone else maybe that Bobby Hall piece that

Mikey Ehrenworth:

you have as a memory, is it, do you have any of that in, in your collection?

Darryl Sitler:

Well, um, I actually do so as a kid growing up in a

Darryl Sitler:

lot of Leaf fans have trouble.

Darryl Sitler:

Um, with this, when I say it, I was a Montreal Canadians fan.

Darryl Sitler:

Okay.

Darryl Sitler:

Jean Beliveau.

Darryl Sitler:

Thanks very much for joining us.

Darryl Sitler:

We'll see you guys was my childhood idol.

Darryl Sitler:

And I remember getting under the Christmas tree as Jean Beliveau,

Darryl Sitler:

number four, Canadiens Jersey.

Darryl Sitler:

And I'd wear that everywhere.

Darryl Sitler:

I'd wear it to school.

Darryl Sitler:

I'd wear whatever you know.

Darryl Sitler:

So now I'm drafted by the Leafs 20 years old.

Darryl Sitler:

I'm in the Montreal forum.

Darryl Sitler:

And I look up and I'm facing off against Jean Beliveau.

Darryl Sitler:

He's 41 and I'm 20.

Darryl Sitler:

So obviously, uh, um, you know, memorable, magical moment for me.

Darryl Sitler:

So I go out and have a successful career in my career, 89.

Darryl Sitler:

I got elected the hall of fame.

Darryl Sitler:

So now I got to meet Jean Beliveau at some alumni golf tournament's NHL hall

Darryl Sitler:

of fame events, but I still had the.

Darryl Sitler:

You know, the excitement is, uh, even, uh, I'm an adult and hall of

Darryl Sitler:

Famer as I did as a kid meeting them.

Darryl Sitler:

So that doesn't go away.

Darryl Sitler:

You still have it.

Darryl Sitler:

So I have Jean Beliveau and Rocket Richard's framed picture.

Darryl Sitler:

I don't know if you guys put that one out in my office, you know,

Darryl Sitler:

because he's my idol, he's my hero.

Darryl Sitler:

So to speak.

Darryl Sitler:

So those things are meaningful.

Darryl Sitler:

Other things I have or.

Darryl Sitler:

Pieces that people gave to me at, um, one lady was, um, she was in

Darryl Sitler:

a senior's home in, um, Georgetown and she loved knitting things.

Darryl Sitler:

And so she sent my picture to England and they sent her back.

Darryl Sitler:

It's about four by two by four, and she hand hooked it.

Darryl Sitler:

Okay.

Darryl Sitler:

All in color with my autograph on it.

Darryl Sitler:

So she's in her eighties, her granddaughter brought her

Darryl Sitler:

down to maple leaf gardens.

Darryl Sitler:

And she asked the security guy, if she could come in and see me, I'm on the ice.

Darryl Sitler:

Okay.

Darryl Sitler:

So I come over to the boards, the granddaughter's there with her 85 year

Darryl Sitler:

old grandmother, and they're giving me this piece and it was just beautiful.

Darryl Sitler:

And I knew the work and the pride she had in him, but the Toronto sun happened

Darryl Sitler:

to be there and took a picture of it.

Darryl Sitler:

Right.

Darryl Sitler:

So she had never been to a leaf game before, and I went upstairs.

Darryl Sitler:

We were playing the Canadiens in the playoffs and secured a

Darryl Sitler:

couple of tickets for her and the granddaughter to go to the game.

Darryl Sitler:

Something like that when it sits in my home has a story and a meaning

Darryl Sitler:

debt, you know, fascinating.

Darryl Sitler:

Well, because, because it's usually the opposite, like the it's

Darryl Sitler:

usually the fan that wants a piece.

Darryl Sitler:

From the athlete, but you actually have a piece that a fan has made for you.

Darryl Sitler:

Similar story happened where I was on the ice, the security guy, he came and

Darryl Sitler:

he said, there's a gentleman outside.

Darryl Sitler:

He wants to give you this gift.

Darryl Sitler:

He comes over to me on the boards.

Darryl Sitler:

It's a hockey stick.

Darryl Sitler:

Right.

Darryl Sitler:

And he told me his father or his uncle when he was dying in Wellesley

Darryl Sitler:

hospital on his deathbed, he said to his nephew, when I die, you make

Darryl Sitler:

sure Darryl settler gets a stick.

Darryl Sitler:

Right.

Darryl Sitler:

I take the stick and it's signed by all the Leafs, 1942.

Darryl Sitler:

Right.

Darryl Sitler:

But I'm not a, I don't show anything you into my home.

Darryl Sitler:

You wouldn't even know I'm a hockey player, so to speak.

Darryl Sitler:

So I take this stick and put it away.

Darryl Sitler:

All these years later and moving around and all this shit or stuff, but how

Darryl Sitler:

the world comes together sometimes.

Darryl Sitler:

So they have a, captain's a legends roll down there.

Darryl Sitler:

And my, my daughter, Meagan married, Amy Apps, So Syl Apps' granddaughter.

Darryl Sitler:

Okay.

Darryl Sitler:

So they're at the ceremony for the legends night and I'm in Florida.

Darryl Sitler:

And Meagan sends me a copy of the video of.

Darryl Sitler:

Syl Apps, the whole story is around 1942.

Darryl Sitler:

He was a captain of the Leafs and the Leafs were behind Detroit Redwings

Darryl Sitler:

in the series three to nothing.

Darryl Sitler:

They came back and they won.

Darryl Sitler:

It's the only time it's happened, where a team in the finals has been

Darryl Sitler:

announced, they won and Syl Apps got seven points in those four games.

Darryl Sitler:

I've got this stick.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Wow.

Darryl Sitler:

Syl Apps.

Darryl Sitler:

My, my grandkids names are, are Sawyer Apps-Sittler.

Darryl Sitler:

And, and the sticks.

Darryl Sitler:

So that stick happened to be given me back in the seventies.

Darryl Sitler:

It's sitting in my closet all these years, but still apps is on it and all

Darryl Sitler:

the rest of the lease, but the 42 story.

Darryl Sitler:

So those things are so meaningful to me.

Darryl Sitler:

And there's other ones like it, you know, I got my.

Darryl Sitler:

Uh, the London Knights gave me my, um, game used Jersey that I played there with.

Darryl Sitler:

I got the Jersey when I took the C off a very emotional night.

Darryl Sitler:

I kept that Jersey and the trainer gave it to me at the end of the year.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Did he dig the C of the garbage or

Darryl Sitler:

no, I didn't.

Darryl Sitler:

I don't know where the C was, but yeah I don't, I don't have it, but I

Darryl Sitler:

got the stitching kind of ripped up.

Darryl Sitler:

But, but the other thing I kept, um, that night when I did it, I

Darryl Sitler:

didn't wish to talk to the media.

Darryl Sitler:

So I, I.

Darryl Sitler:

Hand wrote, uh, a reason why, the reasons why I was giving up the captaincy.

Darryl Sitler:

So I got that framed Frameworth, did the piece for me.

Darryl Sitler:

So those things are meaningful to me.

Darryl Sitler:

Those will go on forever.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Well, I think, I think it's interesting because I

Mikey Ehrenworth:

think ultimately the reason why people are so taken by sports memorabilia

Mikey Ehrenworth:

is because sports has woven itself into the fabric of all of our

Mikey Ehrenworth:

nostalgia, like our group nostalgia.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So whatever you get out of sports is what you end up wanting to put

Mikey Ehrenworth:

on your wall to commemorate it, you know, for, for a lot of people, it's.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Where they were when they saw you score 10 points in a night.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And that's what they commemorate because it reminds them of,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

you know, everything around it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, but for you, it's all the memories about family, about

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the fans who have reached out to you in those touching stories.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We're all looking to get the same thing out of it.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And, and that's, that's kind of what we look to to grow here

. Brian Ehrenworth:

You just touched on this and you're

. Brian Ehrenworth:

probably going in that direction.

. Brian Ehrenworth:

So I won't stomp on you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

go for it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But I, when you say the important moments of your life and

Brian Ehrenworth:

Darryl Sittler's 10 point night was.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Certainly in everybody's mind and from Frameworth's point of view, and we

Brian Ehrenworth:

exclusively sold at 10.9 score sheet piece or for many years, uh, and year in,

Brian Ehrenworth:

year out, um, that piece is one of our.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Biggest selling pieces.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I don't know who keeps buying it because we, uh, tell your

Brian Ehrenworth:

audience how that all started.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Sure.

Darryl Sitler:

I had this flash or this idea.

Darryl Sitler:

I said, okay.

Darryl Sitler:

I wonder where's, there's a score sheet.

Darryl Sitler:

Hey, so I didn't talk to you before I just had this.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I thought you were going to say, I had an idea.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I was going to go out there and score 10 points.

Darryl Sitler:

So, so I, I went to the NHL offices, downtown Toronto.

Darryl Sitler:

Yeah.

Darryl Sitler:

Just no, no, um, no appointment or anything.

Darryl Sitler:

I asked the secretary, I said, I'm here.

Darryl Sitler:

Uh, I'd like to talk to the guy who has the files.

Darryl Sitler:

I said, there's a game.

Darryl Sitler:

I'd like to look at the score sheet.

Darryl Sitler:

So she brings a scout and he's, he's probably a student.

Darryl Sitler:

Right.

Darryl Sitler:

And he's nervous meeting me and I, you know, whatever.

Darryl Sitler:

So we go into the files and it's all there.

Darryl Sitler:

Like not old school stuff, you know?

Darryl Sitler:

I'll look in there.

Darryl Sitler:

It's the score sheet.

Darryl Sitler:

I said, I didn't think I could have that.

Darryl Sitler:

He's on, on, on kid.

Darryl Sitler:

I keep that.

Darryl Sitler:

I see, I get a copy of it.

Darryl Sitler:

Well, the printers are such that you can print it, you know, and back then when

Darryl Sitler:

they did the score sheet, it was just all hand written handwritten, you know,

Darryl Sitler:

so that's when I got the score sheet.

Darryl Sitler:

So I had this idea, wouldn't it be nice to do a piece with a score sheet?

Darryl Sitler:

So I brought it to Brian, but the other part wise.

Darryl Sitler:

There was only one Sunday paper back then the Toronto sun.

Darryl Sitler:

And they had a picture on the front page of the son of one of the goals.

Darryl Sitler:

Right.

Darryl Sitler:

So I put the two pieces together, brought it to Brian and we talked about,

Darryl Sitler:

okay, how can we market this speech?

Darryl Sitler:

Are we going to do it limited edition?

Darryl Sitler:

Are we going to do it as a kind of a master thing?

Darryl Sitler:

And yeah.

Darryl Sitler:

So we did a business relationship and that's, I don't know how many years

Darryl Sitler:

ago, but, uh, it's a piece that a lot of people have, um, because of

Darryl Sitler:

the reasons why black and white shot and they're all signed the peace.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I'll tell you what, there is a few pieces that

Brian Ehrenworth:

continue to sell Bobby Orr's goal.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, obviously iconic goal, you know, a number of different Wayne Gretzky pieces,

Brian Ehrenworth:

but I will tell you definitively that that piece year in year out is in our top.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Five to 10 maximum sellers every year.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And, and the funny story, and I'll let Darryl tell this.

Brian Ehrenworth:

The reason I brought this up in the first place was you talk about.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Important moments in people's lives and how many people remember

Brian Ehrenworth:

that goal, but how many people you figure were at that game that night?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Everybody, I see 80, a hundred thousand people, which is medium old, about 16,000.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And everybody swears up and down, they were at that game.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I might have been, but I don't remember.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Like, I just, I don't think so.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Cause I pretty much went to every game back then, but yeah,

Darryl Sitler:

you're talking about pieces that I have that are meaningful.

Darryl Sitler:

So my late wife, Wendy.

Darryl Sitler:

She kept all this stuff.

Darryl Sitler:

I didn't know if she was just putting it away and after she passed away, obviously

Darryl Sitler:

I'm going through a lot of things.

Darryl Sitler:

Well, I found the original tickets, her seats.

Darryl Sitler:

So back you as a fan would go in they'd rip your ticket stub.

Darryl Sitler:

You'd only have the half the stub.

Darryl Sitler:

Well, because she went in with the wives in the back, she had the whole ticket.

Darryl Sitler:

I brought them here at a Frameworth with original program she had from that night.

Darryl Sitler:

And we did a little piece up.

Darryl Sitler:

So that to me is meaningful.

Darryl Sitler:

Those are her for sure.

Darryl Sitler:

Tickets, real program.

Darryl Sitler:

And someday my kids or my grandkids might have that somewhere.

Darryl Sitler:

You'll have the original, but Darryl and I have been in talks right

Darryl Sitler:

now about reproducing that piece.

Darryl Sitler:

Obviously the original tickets would stay in his frame that will

Darryl Sitler:

go to his kids, but we've, we've taken a reproductions of them.

Darryl Sitler:

And we just might, um, you know, kind of rejuvenate and have a different

Darryl Sitler:

format for that because you also had the program from that game.

Darryl Sitler:

And we opened it up.

Darryl Sitler:

It's great.

Darryl Sitler:

When you get those old programs, cause you, you know, they see the advertising

Darryl Sitler:

for cigarettes at 25 cents or, or the lineup from the games who was playing

Darryl Sitler:

that night long dark advertisement.

Darryl Sitler:

Even some of the advertisers are still advertisers today.

Darryl Sitler:

Like, so, and I think TD bank and a number of other ones are

Darryl Sitler:

still NHL sponsors, which is.

Darryl Sitler:

Oh, it's 45 years ago that that program was out.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So that almost brings us full circle.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, we started with you almost unknowingly in the beginning being

Mikey Ehrenworth:

a pioneer of the sports marketing sports memorabilia world by bringing

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the piece with you and out.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, but the concept of using score sheets is now.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Almost commonplace.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And the fact that it was almost your idea to put that together.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That was the first one that came out the score sheet.

Brian Ehrenworth:

That's almost a standard staple piece of memorabilia

Brian Ehrenworth:

for I'm looking right across from me in the boardroom here.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And there is a Matt Sundin, uh, all time leading score for the Leafs.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And we typically would do the score sheet now is because it was

Brian Ehrenworth:

so successful with Darryl's piece.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Now you don't get too many score sheets that looked like Darryl's 10

Brian Ehrenworth:

points in one game and the other night.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, who has it that had six points in a period, uh, with the Rangers?

Brian Ehrenworth:

I didn't see.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I know, I know I was, I was almost going to text you every,

Brian Ehrenworth:

every time it comes close.

Darryl Sitler:

When you say that when players are starting out and

Darryl Sitler:

getting a lot of points, I get all sorts of Texas that night.

Darryl Sitler:

I got a couple of texts saying, Hey night, your record's going to be broken.

Darryl Sitler:

Then I Google and go on and see what's going on.

Brian Ehrenworth:

A lot of people don't know this, but, uh, well, you

Brian Ehrenworth:

know, w uh, Sidney Crosby's nickname.

Darryl Sitler:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And when he played for , they called him Darryl.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Oh yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

His teammates called him Darryl because he, he was pretty close points in

Brian Ehrenworth:

Rimouski so they said, okay, well next, next time, a couple more points.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And, and so literally I've seen things that the teammates have.

Brian Ehrenworth:

When he had his Stanley cup party in his backyard, his teammates were there

Brian Ehrenworth:

and they were literally calling him Darryl that's special that echoes.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And it will continue to echo.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, that's, I think a few years back, who was it?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Sam Gagner had seven or eight points in a game.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I think that was about as close as anyone's coming awhile, but.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

In your foot and your phone probably lights up every time somebody hits

Mikey Ehrenworth:

it, doesn't get close too often.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

But yeah, well that was, that was kind of a question though, because I know for

Mikey Ehrenworth:

my perspective, I've been working in this industry for on and off my entire life.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, dad, you're the same way, but it's essentially changed

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the way that we watch sports.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

The reason why I love talking about the 10 point night is that

Mikey Ehrenworth:

it's a specific moment where.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It could have happened on any night.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And it happened on that night and that forever changed hockey changed

Mikey Ehrenworth:

your life, changed our lives.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And what people don't often realize is that whenever people who are sort

Mikey Ehrenworth:

of in the note or on the sides of things are watching sports, that

Mikey Ehrenworth:

thoughts in the back of your head, the next play could be that play.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That becomes a new iconic moment.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Do you watch hockey different now knowing that, or, or having been a part of it?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Like, has it taken on a new meaning?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, for example, you mentioned getting texts every time someone gets, you

Mikey Ehrenworth:

know, four or five points in a game.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Um, is there anything else that's changed in the way that you watch sports

Mikey Ehrenworth:

versus when maybe you first started out?

Darryl Sitler:

Because of the technology today, stats are like up

Darryl Sitler:

to speed right away, right before, like when I had the 10 point.

Darryl Sitler:

I remember the statistician Stan Obodiac coming down from the press

Darryl Sitler:

box over to me in the intermission saying Darryl, I don't know if you

Darryl Sitler:

know it, but you've got seven points.

Darryl Sitler:

If you get another one, you tie Rocket Richard's record?

Darryl Sitler:

I didn't know.

Darryl Sitler:

Nobody probably knew that Rocket Richard had a record of eight points or nowadays,

Darryl Sitler:

as soon as it's happening, you know, you're watching live on TV, you know?

Darryl Sitler:

Oh, I'll give you an example.

Darryl Sitler:

So when Auston Matthews started in the league and he scored four goals

Darryl Sitler:

in his first game, I mean, that's going to be a very difficult record

Darryl Sitler:

ever to beat four goals in your first game as a national hockey league.

Darryl Sitler:

Right.

Darryl Sitler:

It's a record this.

Darryl Sitler:

And so when those things happen, yeah.

Darryl Sitler:

Uh, getting back to Sidney, Crosby, cute little story.

Darryl Sitler:

So I had heard the story, you were talking about him calling.

Darryl Sitler:

So dad, the a hundred top 100 guys out in LA a couple of years ago.

Darryl Sitler:

And I had never met Sid before and he was standing where cocktail reception.

Darryl Sitler:

He's standing by.

Darryl Sitler:

I go, Hey, Darryl, big smile comes out.

Darryl Sitler:

Yeah, that's all.

Darryl Sitler:

Anyway,

Brian Ehrenworth:

he's a,

Darryl Sitler:

he's a nice, humble guy.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, he is a great guy and, uh, he thinks the world of you.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I know, um, he's asked about you quite a bit and there's been

Brian Ehrenworth:

back and forth when I see them.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, I, you know, I'll mention that we just did a signing with

Brian Ehrenworth:

you or something in Alaska.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We are.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So, um, there's so many great memories that can come from these games.

Brian Ehrenworth:

When you talk about milestones and stats as a company in the

Brian Ehrenworth:

business side of it, we're always looking at what's happening next.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I, I mean, even the NHL.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Puts out a list.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So we, we were preparing for a Sydney's thousand game in advance.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, so a lot of those things you can, we just brought out a new milestone Jersey

Brian Ehrenworth:

to commemorate those special moments.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So you're right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

The stats are way ahead of their everything for you.

Darryl Sitler:

Yeah.

Darryl Sitler:

Tell you a cool story.

Darryl Sitler:

So when I got traded from the, um, Leafs to the flyers, you know, and

Darryl Sitler:

flyers were always an organization, they were kind of ahead of the game and

Darryl Sitler:

the other teams, as far as marketing their fans and all that other stuff.

Darryl Sitler:

And I had no idea this was going to happen, but.

Darryl Sitler:

The night I scored my thousandth point happened to be in the spectrum.

Darryl Sitler:

It could have been the game before it could have been the game

Darryl Sitler:

after, but they were prepared in case I did it up in the rafters.

Darryl Sitler:

He had big nets of these little, uh, they'd be maybe four by

Darryl Sitler:

eight of Darryl Sitler road to 500 road, a thousand, right?

Darryl Sitler:

Yeah.

Darryl Sitler:

I score the goal on all of a sudden.

Darryl Sitler:

I see.

Darryl Sitler:

And I'm just thinking it's paper confetti, but everybody

Darryl Sitler:

who was there got to take home.

Darryl Sitler:

That piece of Darryl Sittler, it was kind of cool.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Oh, I didn't know that that's when you were playing with Philly.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So it was playing with the flyers and scored the goal against Calgary flames.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But the fact that they did it, but I have Wendy who was at the

Brian Ehrenworth:

game, collected a couple of them.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We put her on you.

Brian Ehrenworth:

See those unique, little things.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I'm finding that now this market has gone absolutely nuts,

Brian Ehrenworth:

uh, during the COVID times.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And some of those things that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You just kind of tucked in a drawer, I'm digging everything out that I

Brian Ehrenworth:

owned because, um, you know, we did promotions during certain games at, uh,

Brian Ehrenworth:

tucked a few away here and there, and I'm looking at what they're selling for

Brian Ehrenworth:

online and it's just absolutely nuts.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And it's, it's also, I remember a while back, uh, dad, and

Mikey Ehrenworth:

you might be able to talk a little bit about this, but the concept of

Mikey Ehrenworth:

essentially using the entire animal instead of just for its meat, which was

Mikey Ehrenworth:

when you tear down the rank, when did the rink boards, the glass, all that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That can be instead of paying to get rid of it, you can now make a

Mikey Ehrenworth:

profit on it and turn it around.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And that's similar to, to what you're talking about in Philly.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, it's just everything you make or do in commemoration of something else can

Mikey Ehrenworth:

be turned into a piece of memorabilia.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And what I'm talking about specifically is when I think it was with New York,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

when you pitched them on breaking down the rink boards and selling it as opposed

Mikey Ehrenworth:

to paying someone to throw it out,

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well Frameworth was really at the forefront of all that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I went to New York to help them with their memorabilia, um,

Brian Ehrenworth:

collections and how to market them.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And, uh, the conversation went, you know, something about they're renovating

Brian Ehrenworth:

Madison square garden and they're putting glass in there, a new, new plexiglass.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I said, well, what are you doing with the old plexi?

Brian Ehrenworth:

And they said, Well, we're throwing it away.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I said, well, you give that to me and all, how much is new plexes as well?

Brian Ehrenworth:

About $50,000.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I, so you give that to me and I'll try and recover some of the costs.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We cut it into square pieces, laser engraved it as official piece of

Brian Ehrenworth:

Madison square garden, plexi glass.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They sold it for 25 bucks a piece and they got all of their money back and they

Brian Ehrenworth:

started asking what else they could do.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So we started collecting the nets from playoff games and cutting them up.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You imagine if we had the 10 point night net that that you scored those

Brian Ehrenworth:

goals into or nets because at both ends.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And then we cut those nets into little pieces, very similar to what

Brian Ehrenworth:

upper deck does with their cards, by cutting up a Jersey and putting it

Brian Ehrenworth:

in the cards and adding the value.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So all that stuff really Frameworth was at the forefront.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Darryl, when you were talking about your thousandth point, that it could have

Brian Ehrenworth:

happened on any day, it could happen before or after when it happened, but

Brian Ehrenworth:

it just so happened to be on that date.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Um, I have never come close to being a professional athlete.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Anyone who's seen me play sports can know my dad still beats me at tennis.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Like I have no excuse for that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's just part of my life now.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

But I, so I still think about the shot that I hit that hit the net and bounced

Mikey Ehrenworth:

on my side, as opposed to his side, when the scope and scale is so much lower.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Do you have any those specific moments in your head where you think either.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Thank God, it did happen this way or thank God it didn't, but regardless it all came

Mikey Ehrenworth:

down to one, either luck of the bounce on the order or some sort of circumstance

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that could have easily gone the other way.

Darryl Sitler:

Not really, I don't never think of the negative things when it

Darryl Sitler:

went the wrong way, but that's probably why you made it to where you are.

Darryl Sitler:

You know, one of the biggest moments in my life and career was the Canada cup

Darryl Sitler:

game winning goal in the Montreal forum in overtime, you know, And that was a

Darryl Sitler:

pass that came over to me on the wing.

Darryl Sitler:

I wasn't playing Santa.

Darryl Sitler:

I was playing wing at the time and Dzurilla the goalie

Darryl Sitler:

came way out of the net.

Darryl Sitler:

And we had talked about that in the dressing room.

Darryl Sitler:

So I look up, but I'm on a tough angle and I put it in well that if

Darryl Sitler:

I missed now comes nothing more.

Darryl Sitler:

Now I become a Canadian hero for scoring that goal.

Darryl Sitler:

So it's a fine line, but when it happens, sometimes I don't even know as

Darryl Sitler:

an athlete, you really appreciate it.

Darryl Sitler:

How big it is to the fans that are watching.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Right.

Darryl Sitler:

You know, you, you did it, but the 10 point game here we

Darryl Sitler:

are 45 years later talking about it.

Darryl Sitler:

And I remember after it happened that night.

Darryl Sitler:

Yeah.

Darryl Sitler:

It was whatever, but I never realized that, Hey, all these years later it

Darryl Sitler:

would be as big and play another 11,000 games, the national hockey league.

Darryl Sitler:

And nobody's even really come close to eight.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Right.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well, and then, and, and that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Chorus that game winning goal for team Canada.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I remember, uh, Don cherry taken a little bit of the credit

Brian Ehrenworth:

for that, but, well, I don't think that was really the case.

Darryl Sitler:

Well, he did come through the dressing room between

Darryl Sitler:

overtime and a regulation time.

Darryl Sitler:

Saying, Hey, you get a chance to look up all that he's going

Darryl Sitler:

to be coming out, go wide.

Darryl Sitler:

But we had all figured that out two or three games, but

Darryl Sitler:

you know what, give him credit.

Darryl Sitler:

I heard that on the news the other day, just like when I tell the story,

Darryl Sitler:

I tell it the way it is, you know?

Darryl Sitler:

Wow.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You guys have that in common.

Brian Ehrenworth:

If you hear it from Don, it's like, I went to him.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I told him, wait for him to come out from the stands.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And that's why you did it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I heard, I heard them on a, uh, broadcast the other

Brian Ehrenworth:

day, bring up that very point.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, somebody else scored a similar goal and they said, do I remember

Brian Ehrenworth:

Darryl Sittler doing that.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And it's, you know, when the goalie comes out too far and you can just.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Take the shot and, uh, and move around him.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I remember that one, like it was yesterday,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So less, less about , the actual moment to moment, but I've

Mikey Ehrenworth:

always been curious about this, uh, because I've, I've, I've seen it happen,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

you know, in the, in the limited amount I've been involved in, in this business

Mikey Ehrenworth:

and been around athletes, speaking with their, their fans and collectors

Mikey Ehrenworth:

has a, a fan ever come up to you and told you a statistic or a fact about

Mikey Ehrenworth:

your career that you didn't know.

Darryl Sitler:

Well, lots of times.

Darryl Sitler:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Do you, do you have one specific one that,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

that kind of rings a bell?

Darryl Sitler:

There was one, uh, I have a record for the

Darryl Sitler:

two quickest shorthanded goals.

Darryl Sitler:

Um, I don't know how many seconds they were a party.

Darryl Sitler:

It was against winning, but I didn't even know that because of something that came

Darryl Sitler:

up somewhere else, but that happens a lot of times to me, you know, like even

Darryl Sitler:

just recently this year, when, um, when Austin Matthews, uh, He was going after

Darryl Sitler:

the record for most consecutive points.

Darryl Sitler:

Um, it was 18 games that I shared with Eddie Olczyk.

Darryl Sitler:

I didn't know that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Oh, really?

Darryl Sitler:

Somebody starts to talk about it again.

Darryl Sitler:

I don't even remember when I did it the year I did it, or, but

Brian Ehrenworth:

do you know how many records you hold or

Brian Ehrenworth:

did anybody ever tell you that?

Brian Ehrenworth:

That'd be interesting.

Darryl Sitler:

You know, I always see the 10 point game and, uh, six goals

Darryl Sitler:

but if you went into the leaf record box, I guess that's where you'd

Darryl Sitler:

find out where you stood amongst other, other Leafs and stuff.

Darryl Sitler:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

The only thing I've ever learned from another person that I didn't

Mikey Ehrenworth:

know about myself were on nights that I had a bit too much to drink in university.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That was like, did you know you did this?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I'm like, I did not know that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And I, you shouldn't have told me because I scored 10 points in the NHL.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

How did that happen?

Darryl Sitler:

One, one stat.

Darryl Sitler:

That means a lot to me and I not to.

Darryl Sitler:

Pat myself in the back, but I didn't know this until we were actually

Darryl Sitler:

doing the book with Mike Leonetti.

Darryl Sitler:

Right.

Darryl Sitler:

Um, so you look at the history of maple leaf gardens and all the players

Darryl Sitler:

that played over there in the years.

Darryl Sitler:

There's the top 10 list of Leafs and other players at score goals,

Darryl Sitler:

the most on maple leaf gardens ice.

Darryl Sitler:

So I hold that record for leaf players.

Darryl Sitler:

But for visiting players, uh, I think it's already housed up there Bobby

Darryl Sitler:

Hull, but you look at the list and say, okay, those goals, I scored

Darryl Sitler:

these goals at maple leaf gardens.

Darryl Sitler:

I said, it'd be a nice start to kind of put there.

Darryl Sitler:

I think it's in my book, kind of outline it all, but I had no idea,

Darryl Sitler:

you know, you don't use scored

Brian Ehrenworth:

well, that's one that never goes away too.

Darryl Sitler:

Yeah, that's right.

Darryl Sitler:

Cause the gardens

Brian Ehrenworth:

they can't take away from,

Darryl Sitler:

it's a part of the tradition, the history of the garden.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And that's such a great building.

Darryl Sitler:

Yeah.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

I mean, there's, there's so many variables and so

Mikey Ehrenworth:

many statistics that are out there.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And that's one of the challenges that we have in the business that we have is

Mikey Ehrenworth:

finding a way to find the ones that are most marketable and that people like

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the most, I remember learning, I think it was bill Mosienko, uh, the quickest

Mikey Ehrenworth:

three goals in like 21 seconds when he was playing for the Chicago Blackhawks

Mikey Ehrenworth:

little things like that, where I'm like, well, that, that, that moment.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Which he may not even know he had is the kind of thing that now

Mikey Ehrenworth:

people are looking to commemorate on, on their wall in some way.

Darryl Sitler:

I think one of the things that I'd say is I'm a player even to.

Darryl Sitler:

The current players and the players that are coming on that, um, it's important

Darryl Sitler:

to kind of have a re not to kind of, to have a respect for this business so that

Darryl Sitler:

when you're doing something, you know, the person that's, you did piece for that.

Darryl Sitler:

You're not going to bastardize it or mess it up because they paid

Darryl Sitler:

the going price for it at the time.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Right.

Darryl Sitler:

And so you keep.

Darryl Sitler:

Your your, your integrity and your loyalty to those pieces, you know, for

Darryl Sitler:

sure, because I, uh, lots of times I get people wanting me to sign 10 point pieces.

Darryl Sitler:

Um, you talk about the score sheet.

Darryl Sitler:

That's been our piece for all these years, but now you see

Darryl Sitler:

other guys copycatting it, right?

Darryl Sitler:

Not with my signature on it.

Darryl Sitler:

They might take an eight by 10, put it with it, with the score sheet.

Darryl Sitler:

To make it look like, right.

Darryl Sitler:

But it's not, I don't, they don't have my permission to do that.

Darryl Sitler:

I guess they can do it,

Brian Ehrenworth:

Well they can't really, because here's the thing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And one of the things that Frameworth did many, many years ago, and I we're

Brian Ehrenworth:

one of the few, well, I think we're the only company up here in Canada.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I know upper deck and, uh, And, um, fanatics and a few other companies down

Brian Ehrenworth:

in the U S have all the appropriate NHL player association, alumni licenses,

Brian Ehrenworth:

hockey, Canada licenses, and that allows us to do pieces, use images, Getty images,

Brian Ehrenworth:

take images from all those places, pay royalties properly on all those pieces.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And gives us a, uh, an advantage.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We pay dearly for it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

We pay a lot of money for those licenses to do the things that we do.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So by taking that score sheet, it's an NHL score sheet.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You're not allowed to reproduce it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Can the NHL come down on people for do?

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yes, they can.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Do.

Brian Ehrenworth:

They.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, they're not going to go after a little guy, that's doing one

Brian Ehrenworth:

piece, but they might go after somebody that's reproducing it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So the advantage of working with companies like Frameworth or fanatics or upper

Brian Ehrenworth:

deck is that we have the licenses, we're paying the royalties and we have

Brian Ehrenworth:

the right to do these things, which should protect people like Darryl.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, when they do a piece with us, but it's not necessarily the case.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

That's the important distinction is that it ensures that

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the money gets into the pockets of the people who, uh, were the

Mikey Ehrenworth:

ones to bring about that moment.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You know, you don't want the person who scored 10 points in a night to

Mikey Ehrenworth:

be the only one who doesn't benefit from a 10 point night piece existing.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Right?

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So you need to have those in place

Brian Ehrenworth:

the opposite of that is that they're all works with

Brian Ehrenworth:

us because we're a company that has a licensing and has the integrity.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But we also work with Darryl because.

Brian Ehrenworth:

In reverse.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It's just an important for companies like Frameworth to work with athletes that have

Brian Ehrenworth:

the integrity that live up to their word.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I'm not going to go through any, any names that said, but

Brian Ehrenworth:

we've had deals and handshakes and contracts with, with some players.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It doesn't happen too much in our world of hockey.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Uh, where we have a deal.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And then next thing I know, we find out that, uh, the deal has been broken.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I was up in Montreal one time with my family, watching a game up there, and

Brian Ehrenworth:

I got a call from somebody back here saying, Hey, you want to buy some of

Brian Ehrenworth:

your exclusive players' autographs?

Brian Ehrenworth:

And I said, what do you mean he's exclusive to us?

Brian Ehrenworth:

We have a contract.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Oh, no, they just did a signing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Oh, okay.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So we hope that doesn't happen too often.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, because most part it doesn't.

Brian Ehrenworth:

No, it doesn't.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And so what we ended up trying to do is because when we launch a piece,

Brian Ehrenworth:

like the 10 point night piece, we assume that we're the only ones with

Brian Ehrenworth:

it because we have a deal with Darryl.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

The NHL licensing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

But when it gets knocked off by, you know, it's basically

Brian Ehrenworth:

forgery, uh, or unlicensed thing.

Brian Ehrenworth:

And that creates a problem for all those people that actually bought the

Brian Ehrenworth:

piece at fair market value and expected.

Brian Ehrenworth:

It will appreciate and value.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Yeah, it's interesting.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

It's, it's a, it's a tight balancing act because you don't want to just completely

Mikey Ehrenworth:

commodify what most people want to experience as a way to enjoy a memory.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, but at the same time, you do have to protect those who are involved.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

And I think Darryl, you do quite a bit in the industry, uh, to protect yourself

Mikey Ehrenworth:

and your peers as well, to make sure that everything's going the right way.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, and I think this is a great insight just into the way that this world

Mikey Ehrenworth:

works, sports, marketing and sports memorabilia, and Darryl you've been

Mikey Ehrenworth:

around to help see the growth and in fact, contribute to the growth yourself.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

So we're always appreciative of that.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

We love seeing you over here.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Uh, any closing remarks before we wrap this up?

Darryl Sitler:

No, I've had a great relationship with Frameworth

Darryl Sitler:

and with Brian over the years.

Darryl Sitler:

And to me that that's as important as anything because there are a lot of, to

Darryl Sitler:

be polite, shady guys in this industry, uh, that try to take advantage of it.

Darryl Sitler:

And so if you feel there's a trust there and you can build something in

Darryl Sitler:

the other thing, what I like with Brian is that if I have an idea, I come to

Darryl Sitler:

him and we brainstorm a little bit and he puts it out to his people and

Darryl Sitler:

maybe we come up with something new.

Darryl Sitler:

That is beneficial for everybody the ran for our each, each one of us.

Darryl Sitler:

And to me, that's, that's a part of it.

Darryl Sitler:

I like also, you know,

Mikey Ehrenworth:

for sure, for sure.

Brian Ehrenworth:

I just one like to thank Darryl very much for

Brian Ehrenworth:

spending the time here with us.

Brian Ehrenworth:

You've been a great friend, a great business partner for many years.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Um, and, uh, I know you had a lot, a lot going on these days,

Brian Ehrenworth:

even with COVID back and forth.

Brian Ehrenworth:

So for you to take the time to come in here, we really appreciate it.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Yeah.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Thanks very much guys.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Pleasure.

Brian Ehrenworth:

Thanks guys.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Well, ladies and gentlemen, we made it to

Mikey Ehrenworth:

the end of yet another episode.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Thanks again so much for joining us.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You can find videos of all of our episodes on YouTube by

Mikey Ehrenworth:

searching the sign-off podcast.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

You can also follow us on Twitter @FrameworthSport or Instagram

Mikey Ehrenworth:

@Frameworthsports and Hey, if you're not sick of me yet, you can find me

Mikey Ehrenworth:

on Twitter over at, @RetrogradeMikey, or you can always find me embarrassing

Mikey Ehrenworth:

myself over on Instagram @Ehrenworth.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

The sign-off is a proud product of Fadoo productions and Sad Styles

Mikey Ehrenworth:

productions, executive producers, Mikey Ehrenworth, and Andrew Bascom.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

Until next week.

Mikey Ehrenworth:

This is Mikey Ehrenworth signing off

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About the Podcast

The Sign Off: A Frameworth Podcast
A behind the scenes look at Sports Marketing from those who helped invent it
Welcome to The Sign Off: A Frameworth Podcast.

This is a forum for all the stories you didn't know you WISHED you knew about the inner workings of the world of Sports Marketing.

Away from the arenas, there's a lot more that goes on behind the scenes, and it's often precisely where some of the most amazing stories take root.

Join us as we explore how every day people come together with a passion and fandom towards sports to form the web of industry which serves as an integral element of the games we all know and love.

About your host

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Mikey Ehrenworth